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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys. I am waiting for my m001. While waiting, Ive started doing some research and ran into this great forum. My first mod will be a special usb cable for m001.Here is the idea (thanks for donaldson for identifying the connector pins)Donaldson stated the rx tx serial pins:pin 12: Serial TXpin 13: Serial RXIf these pins are really rx and tx pins, we can convert them to usb signal by using an FTDI chip.The easy way is using a FTDI Basic Breakout kit:http://www.solarbotics.com/products/50512/In other words, with this board, you can make an adapter cable/converter for usb devices. This way, it should be possible to add bluetooth, gps or 3g functions to the tablet, without opening it up.
 

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[quote author=Sliveth link=topic=210.msg1761#msg1761 date=1274668045]My first mod will be a special usb cable for m001.If these pins are really rx and tx pins, we can convert them to usb signal by using an FTDI chip.The easy way is using a FTDI Basic Breakout kit:http://www.solarbotics.com/products/50512/[/quote]Hey ... I want some of the drugs you are taking ;)))) sorry ... SCNRback to seriousness:the M001 serial outputs the linux console output.What you COULD possibly do is this:m001 serial <-> USB concerter <-> USB Serial converter <-> RS232 PCBut this would be rather pointless as this would work as well:m001 serial <-> RS232 PCDo NOT forget that the serial is internally NOT routed to the USB controller, but to the serial terminal!
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
1- Don't get rude.2- I don't even have the device, I didn't test anything myself. I have stated that.3- Serial does not need to get routed to any usb controller. If you don't know, let me inform you about what is a USB port actually is. It means Universal Serial Bus. It is a mere interface between the serial in/out of your motherboard. And by using a ftdi chip, you can directly simulate this interface.There is nothing called as the "m001 serial" but lets assume that you mean that the serial output on the dock connector is specifically sending and receiving a specific data, pre-programmed by the manufacturer. In that case, of course this method would not work. But as I said, there is no info on this that I've seen yet. I will try it and post it to the forums once I receive the m001.4- Anyway, on one of donaldsons topics, some guys have found a directly serial port pins on the motherboard. This means that, even the tx rx on the dock connector does not work, we can still use that serial port to get an extra usb out by the method I have mentioned. 5- I am not talking theoretically, I have used ftdi chips to talk through USB on lots and lots of devices that has been using serial ports to communicate before. I don't see a reason that this wouldn't work on m001.
 

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[quote author=Sliveth link=topic=210.msg1823#msg1823 date=1274706535]1- Don't get rude.[/quote]Right !
2- I don't even have the device, I didn't test anything myself. I have stated that.
I am affraid that testing will be loosing time : your idea could work but require more dev than some simpler idea
3- Serial does not need to get routed to any usb controller. If you don't know, let me inform you about what is a USB port actually is. It means Universal Serial Bus. It is a mere interface between the serial in/out of your motherboard. And by using a ftdi chip, you can directly simulate this interface.
Not really ... at least I do not think so. I mean, ok USB is serial protocol, but this does not means at all that it uses RS232 protocol and that it goes through the same controller on the mother board (in fact I am sure that this is a different controler on most motherboard. The M001 is using a SoC, so it may be the same physical component, but most probably not the same pins and part of the chip.
There is nothing called as the "m001 serial" but lets assume that you mean that the serial output on the dock connector is specifically sending and receiving a specific data, pre-programmed by the manufacturer. In that case, of course this method would not work. But as I said, there is no info on this that I've seen yet. I will try it and post it to the forums once I receive the m001.
Good state of mind
Good luck
4- Anyway, on one of donaldsons topics, some guys have found a directly serial port pins on the motherboard. This means that, even the tx rx on the dock connector does not work, we can still use that serial port to get an extra usb out by the method I have mentioned.
In which case it is easier to directly put a Hub on the USB internal port. That was what I mean when I said that your idea requires more dev than some other simpler idea. Anyway I have not read in depth the chip spec, but if I remember well, there is only one serial port on this chip. Meaning that the internal serial is probably just an access to the same serial than in the ipod connector.
5- I am not talking theoretically, I have used ftdi chips to talk through USB on lots and lots of devices that has been using serial ports to communicate before. I don't see a reason that this wouldn't work on m001.
I have used similar devices on windows environment. Interresting fact : they require a driver under windows 98 ... for me it means that they require a driver everywhere, including android. If you are lucky, this driver would be included, but I have some serious doubts ... Anyway, you are perfectly right on one point : M001 is a cheap device just for fun in dev/hardware. It does not cost much, it does not bring much, but the fun is probably to try any idea on it ...
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Exactly, Im planning to have some fun with this device. Its cheap and I believe really open for further development. Btw the chip does not require a driver, you can even use it to convert arduino serial data to usb data. You can use it to convert any standard serial port to usb port without a driver. I have used it on wireless cards, bluetooth cards, ultrasonic sensors etc. None has an OS on them, and they have standard serial ports on them. I am just converting the data to usb with the ftdi and be able to connect them to PC to talk to them via usb ports.I use this method all the time on my robots to interface them to specific devices, or computers.The only question here is, does the 3g and bluetooth dongles I will use have a driver on android. If so, it will be awesome. If not, I shall install linux. I feel positive about it, since people have already managed to install debian on it.I wonder how would Ubuntu Netbook Edition work on it. It would probably be slow, but worth the try.Back to the topic; you are right about this won't be the easiest way to reach the goal and require some dev. But in long terms, it would be more reliable and power-friendly than installing a usb hub that is designed for PC systems. I have mentioned it on another topic but I wonder if we can find a usb hub card designed for mobile systems. That would fix all of our problems related to usb.
 

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[quote author=Sliveth link=topic=210.msg1823#msg1823 date=1274706535]1- Don't get rude.2- I don't even have the device, I didn't test anything myself. I have stated that.3- Serial does not need to get routed to any usb controller. If you don't know, let me inform you about what is a USB port actually is. It means Universal Serial Bus. It is a mere interface between the serial in/out of your motherboard. And by using a ftdi chip, you can directly simulate this interface.There is nothing called as the "m001 serial" but lets assume that you mean that the serial output on the dock connector is specifically sending and receiving a specific data, pre-programmed by the manufacturer. In that case, of course this method would not work. But as I said, there is no info on this that I've seen yet. I will try it and post it to the forums once I receive the m001.4- Anyway, on one of donaldsons topics, some guys have found a directly serial port pins on the motherboard. This means that, even the tx rx on the dock connector does not work, we can still use that serial port to get an extra usb out by the method I have mentioned. 5- I am not talking theoretically, I have used ftdi chips to talk through USB on lots and lots of devices that has been using serial ports to communicate before. I don't see a reason that this wouldn't work on m001.[/quote]1) I used smilies and also have written simply could not resist ... 2) has nothing to do with testing, just with turning on your brain (PS: Mine has also not yet arrived ... still waiting in hong kong post to be posted)3) let me repeat ... I INDEED want some of that weed that you are smoking!!PLEASE read up before posting.Especially about:serial protocol (vs. parallel protocol)USB vs. RS232etc.What "your method" does is put the RS232 stream from the M001 into a USB stream.(The CONTENTS does not change at all!!!)Absolutely no reason to try this ... save yourself the time, and do something usefull!4) sure there are the pins on the mainboard ... what do you think how the signal gets to the dock port!! Only problem is that it is a RS232 connection ... so NO USB there!!No ... RS232 is NOT(!!) the same as USB! (I guess that there are 20 years between the 2 technologies ;)5) what exactly have you done?? tunneled the serial protocol through USB.So what exactly would that buy us in this case??? NOTHING!!so to sum it up.I do not mean to be rude.You seem to have some kind of wrong thought about this technology ... so please clear that up.I did not know that I have put a working USB device into the trash, when my old VT320 DEC Serial Terminal died on me ....<this is ONLY a joke, no means to offend you>PS: If you do not know what that is, read up on wikipedia ... those were really nice devices ... back in 1988 (or so)
 

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Great ... we all want to explore the M001! Let us all have fun!But honestly ... befor you waste even more time on that.calm down, breath out, and than explain us what exactly you want to achieve.Than you will realize that it is impossible!Maybe I just misunderstood ... but I think that you want to plug a USB 3G dongle into a classic "RS232" serial portTHAT WILL NOT WORK.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@Likoum: Unfortunately, I have ran into the conclusion that its not possible to do this with the ftdi chip. Simply because we don't have the bus structure of usb ports on the serial port. I could've get to this conclusion if the guy above simply stated this situation instead of insulting with no reason, like most of the 10 years old guys do. I mean, is there a forum on the intarwebz that does not have guys like this? I don't come here to argue with people, I come here to have a descent conversation on modding this device.Anyway, I have found lots of 3.3V serial gps modules in ebay around for cheap. We can have the gps function on the device by simply soldering them to the empty serial pins on the board.
 

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[quote author=Sliveth link=topic=210.msg1842#msg1842 date=1274715931]@Likoum: Unfortunately, I have ran into the conclusion that its not possible to do this with the ftdi chip. Simply because we don't have the bus structure of usb ports on the serial port. I could've get to this conclusion if the guy above simply stated this situation instead of insulting with no reason, like most of the 10 years old guys do. I mean, is there a forum on the intarwebz that does not have guys like this? I don't come here to argue with people, I come here to have a descent conversation on modding this device.Anyway, I have found lots of 3.3V serial gps modules in ebay around for cheap. We can have the gps function on the device by simply soldering them to the empty serial pins on the board.[/quote]He did not insult you he was providing constructive criticism which is actually the best thing for a forum.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Didn't insult me?Directly copy pasting."I want some of the drugs you are taking""has nothing to do with testing, just with turning on your brain""I INDEED want some of that weed that you are smoking!!"I really am having a hard time not considering these as insults.I have nothing to do with a productive criticism. But this is not the way to criticize something. This guy does not know me, I don't know him either. How can he talk to me like that? That is what I don't understand.The simple and correct way of criticizing my idea at the first post can be done with a single sentence: "This is not possible, because of the lack of a bus structure on the serial port."This guy does not criticize anything, he is simply insulting me. Otherwise, he wouldn't need to write such long replies telling me TURNING ON MY BRAIN and asking me WHAT KIND OF DRUG I am taking, instead of the simple sentence I have written above.Let me go smoke some crack and turn my brain off, then I think I can communicate with this guy on the same level.Sigh.
 

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You forgot to copy the smiley from the first post!!let me add that ":))) sorry ... SCNR"there was a SORRY, and there was a simply could not resist.But seriously ... you made my day, I was literally lying on the floor laughing ;)(mistaking RS232 for USB :)And there was also the answer to your question:"Do NOT forget that the serial is internally NOT routed to the USB controller, but to the serial terminal!"And than you still very, very consistently and stubbornly claimed that USB is the same as the serial port on the eken!!"If you don't know, let me inform you about what is a USB port actually is. It means Universal Serial Bus. It is a mere interface between the serial in/out of your motherboard."This is the biggest **** I have read in many, many years.Than I told you to think it through ... but you simply ignored my post.Even after another forum member told you exactly the same.But now to get at least a little ontopic:your last idea ... yepp ... that is theoretically possible. (soldering a serial GPS onto the RS232 "port")But as I have written multiple times now:The serial output, outputs the linux terminal. Eg serial line which prints out the linux startup messages, and where you could login via serial.I guess it is possible to change that later in the boot process to connect to the GPS module.If the module is not confused by the linux startup that is output to the serial.So lean back, calm down (as I already told you once) and read the history, see the smileys, see your reply, see the facts, read wikipedia about "RS232" and "USB"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS232http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB"The Electronics Industries Association (EIA) standard RS-232-C[1] as of 1969""Year created: January 1996"There are 27 years between them (even more than my estimate of 20 years!!)Do you NOW see where my amusment comes from ........For the future ... containing the word "serial" does NOT mean that it is USB.Indeed there are many, many serial protocols, like HyperTransport, 1xPCIe Lane, ....
 

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[quote author=Sliveth link=topic=210.msg1761#msg1761 date=1274668045]Donaldson stated the rx tx serial pins:pin 12: Serial TXpin 13: Serial RXIf these pins are really rx and tx pins, we can convert them to usb signal by using an FTDI chip.[... argument deleted ...] [/quote]You are simultaneously wrong and right.
Code:
pin 9: SVideo Chromiance (photo)pin 10: SVideo Luminance (photo)pin 12: Serial TX -- actually D- (white)pin 13: Serial RX -- actually D+ (green)pin 14 - 16: Ground
The UART (ttyS0) is only available by soldering to test points inside the unit -- either on the bottom of the main board (4 pads marked J17 -- starting at the side closest to the part designator, the pads are Gnd, RX (from M001 to world), TX (from world to M001), +3.3v)) or on the CPU card (test points marked TXD0 and RXD0). The FT232RL you mentioned will work nicely for that -- it's 3.3v TTL, 115200. You'll get debug spew from W-Boot, debug spew and an interactive shell in U-Boot, and console output and a root login from Linux. I mounted a header on the side of my M001 to gain access to those lines:I have to disagree with Donaldson's pinout, though. Pins 12 and 13 are not RX/TX -- they are, in fact, the missing host-mode USB port, D-/D+:
Code:
-------------------- do set configusb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3===>rt_ioctl_giwscan. 6(6) BSS returned, data->length = 963usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choicescsi0 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devicesscsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access   Kingston DataTraveler 2.0 1.00 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 1001472 512-byte hardware sectors: (512 MB/489 MiB)sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is offsd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write throughsd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 1001472 512-byte hardware sectors: (512 MB/489 MiB)sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is offsd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write through sda: sda1sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disksd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
For this to be useful, we need a +5v source -- I measured about +5v at pins 9 and 10, but I was too scared to actually pull current from them (in case they actually are video outputs?), so I pulled the +5v from my computer. (To answer the earlier question, no, the M001 will not charge from USB.)
 

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[quote author=ch4rlii link=topic=210.msg2249#msg2249 date=1274881568]Great!What about PIN 23 donaldson mentioned:http://slatedroid.com/index.php?topic=182.msg1513#msg1513Is this an input PIN?[/quote]Yes, sadly, that's just +5v in from the attached computer. I guess the only point of it is for the M001 to detect that you've plugged it into a computer; it certainly doesn't charge off that.
 

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I know it's off-topic and might potentially fan a budding flame war, but I don't think it is...[quote author=Sliveth link=topic=210.msg1902#msg1902 date=1274730126]Didn't insult me?Directly copy pasting."I want some of the drugs you are taking""has nothing to do with testing, just with turning on your brain""I INDEED want some of that weed that you are smoking!!"I really am having a hard time not considering these as insults.I have nothing to do with a productive criticism. But this is not the way to criticize something. This guy does not know me, I don't know him either. How can he talk to me like that? That is what I don't understand.The simple and correct way of criticizing my idea at the first post can be done with a single sentence: "This is not possible, because of the lack of a bus structure on the serial port."This guy does not criticize anything, he is simply insulting me. Otherwise, he wouldn't need to write such long replies telling me TURNING ON MY BRAIN and asking me WHAT KIND OF DRUG I am taking, instead of the simple sentence I have written above.[/quote]Yeah, he did criticize. Had he been insulting, he wouldn't have mentioned anything about the solution to the problem or the potential issues surrounding your initial suggestions. While I am a fan of being succinct, (which one would not infer from this post, but I also like irony) I'm very much not a fan of conversations being overly bland. Personally, I think cracking a joke here or there makes things interesting...although some may have vastly different interpretations of humour than I do, it's still more engaging than just straight-up data-talk. Yawn. Not to mention that "what are you smoking/what kind of drugs are you taking" is a pretty well-established idiom/response in a situation like this.I do think the turn on your brain comment _was_ a bit rude, if not rather rude. But the other stuff? In any case, I'm going to do some external USB capability testing of my own after I crack apart some ipod cables and whatnot... hopefully it turns out well and doesn't turn my second Eken into a pool of melted plastic or something.Blah.
 

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@bushingPins 9 and 10 trace back to the same 5v plane the wifi usb draws it power from.
 
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