[Roman2025]

The ATM7029 isn't that awful. ATM7029 tablets I've seen actually seem to be cheaper than RK3066 ones. While I wouldn't buy an ATM7029-based tablet for gaming, it's been pretty decent for web browsing, reading, etc and battery life seems to be quite good. I remember getting around 8+ hours battery life with it while reading. Unfortunately, I broke the screen on my Venus so now I have to wait until after the Chinese New Year celebration to buy a replacement. The device has been on standby since Saturday (2/9) and the battery level doesn't seem to have budged since then. It was at 68% when I broke the screen, will see how long until the device runs out of battery.

However, the GPU on the ATM7029 is pretty bad. I guess that's the reason Ainol went with the Allwinner A31 for the retina display Novo9 Spark rather than stick to the ATM7029. *sigh* Can't wait for these RK3188 tablets to be released.

You make a good point if the price difference is significantly less than an RK3066 unit ($50 - $70 less imho)

I am not saying the chipset can't do anything at all, but at the prices they are currently trying to compete with I just think it "adds noise" rather than adds something of value for those that are in the market for a tablet. Very much so my opinion but let me further explain...

What kind of development is going to be done for this chipset and devices based off of it? Especially vs. a bigger name like Rockchip. I am not saying we should never embrace a new player or a new chip, but I don't think we should embrace just for the sake of embracing it. They need to bring something innovative to the table to attract enough users to overcome some of the more seated brands like Rockchip. Time might prove me wrong here, but I just don't see this chip making much of an impact on such a crowded market due to its positioning with price and performance.

Now, if you end up with 20+ hours of "screen on" battery life/usage it might be a different story

as that would be a big mark in its favor and would validate Action's usage of Cortex-A5 cores (honestly... A5's?).

The A31 has somewhat compelling GPU stats (and it uses a well-known PowerVR chipset rather than a Vivante...) which help make up for the underwhelming performance which CAN BE forgiven if it turns out to sip power, cost less than the RK3066, and be a stable platform. It obviously has the manufacturer backing so I don't think the user base (and resulting community support) is going to be an issue. I think their choice of the Cortex-A7 was actually fairly wise. The reason being that while YES they are less power than A9 core, they are much more energy efficient, cost less, and technologically have some advancements under the hood that put them closer to the A15 spec than the A9. I AM NOT SAYING THEY PERFORM LIKE THE A15, I am saying they have some similar engineering enhancements under hood that make them compelling enough vs the A9 to make up for their lack of performance.

Anyhow, I still do standby my initial thought that the ATM7029 just doesn't make sense as it stands at present. I mean no offense to those that own them, but I wouldn't advise anyone else to buy a device based off them.

Personally, I think Action is trying to "play to the consumer" who wants to see "Quad-Core" on their device without looking any deeper. I think they went with "A5's" to keep costs very very low and as a result are currently enjoying a considerable margin on every chip sold.

Considering the RK3188's underwhelming performance enhancements I think it might be fair to say that Rockchip is playing a similar game, although the die-shrink to 28nm is a big deal and I think the power usage will prove to be (boy I hope...) much better than the RK3066 even if the performance numbers are not.

Kind Regards,

Roman

 

[rui no onna]

Personally, I think Action is trying to "play to the consumer" who wants to see "Quad-Core" on their device without looking any deeper. I think they went with "A5's" to keep costs very very low and as a result are currently enjoying a considerable margin on every chip sold.

Unfortunately, I think the same. I chose my device on the basis of battery life, screen resolution and aesthetics (in particular, the Nexus 7-like dimpled back) - not on expectations of great performance. I probably would've gone with an RK3066 tablet had I found a device with similar to the Novo7 Venus.

 

[Roman2025]

I am running Vellamo II on my N90 II with 1024x768 screen. I am interested in how to benchmark compares...

Thus Far:

HTML 5: 1606
--Sunspider 1152
METAL: 512

Anyone else have benches for similarly configured A31 chips?

Also interested in these results vs. other similarly configured RK3066 tablets as this is very new firmware.

Regards,

Roman

PSS - Nevermind, Post 7 had what I was looking for. I feel good about my scores

 

[mkh]

guys sorry to interrupt ur discussion but coming to the real world..with all the comparisons u guys have done.. whats the best quad core 10.1 inch retina display china tab with good sound speakers to buy at present/the near future?am willing to shell out upto 300$.roman which one are u planning to carry/sell in the near future once u decide to get out of the ployer series..?

 

[Roman2025]

Not that anyone listens but you should avoid retina (out of China) right now. None of these chipsets have the horsepower to push a display with that high of a resolution and as a result all of the retina class devices suffer from really choppy performance for everything including not just gaming but also reading/pdf/internet browsing... you name it. Just watch the youtube videos. Not to mention gross app incompatibility and greatly decreased battery life resulting in the need for much bigger batteries and heavier devices...

When apple went to the iPad 3 with retina class display, they DOUBLED the GPU power of the BEST GPU represented in this thread. That is a gross but fairly honest/accurate statement.

"Retina" in a China tab is just a pissing match/marketing move right now, just like these "quad core" devices that don't perform any better than the previous generation dual core devices. Don't get sucked in

My 2-cents... Here are your options:

1. Wait until a stronger processor/gpu becomes available in China tabs and THEN get a retina device... (8 months to a year at most? probably much sooner with the new Mali GPU right on the horizon and A15 around the corner)

2. Can't wait? Get a Ployer Momo 12 or a Momo 20 if you REALLY want that A31 Quad Core or go for one of the new Samsung Quad-Core devices (better choice) just make sure whatever you get has a really nice 10.1" 1280x800 IPS screen (the momo 12 has one of the absolute best out of china at present, I haven't tested the Momo 20) and be happy as that PPI looks very good and has the double, triple, and quadruple benefits of being more compatible with the app market, running buttery smooth, and not being a power whore...

Take my advice and be happy, don't take my advice and yes I will say "I told you so"

but in a nice way

Kind regards,

Roman

 

[rui no onna]

Not that anyone listens but you should avoid retina (out of China) right now. None of these chipsets have the horsepower to push a display with that high of a resolution and as a result all of the retina class devices suffer from really choppy performance for everything including not just gaming but also reading/pdf/internet browsing... you name it. Just watch the youtube videos. Not to mention gross app incompatibility and greatly decreased battery life resulting in the need for much bigger batteries and heavier devices...

When apple went to the iPad 3 with retina class display, they DOUBLED the GPU power of the BEST GPU represented in this thread. That is a gross but fairly honest/accurate statement.

The Allwinner A31 uses a PowerVR SGX544MP2 350MHz (22 GFLOPS) which is between the iPad 2's PowerVR SGX543MP2 (16 GFLOPS) and the iPad 3's (32 GFLOPS) so it's not exactly accurate to say the iPad 3 has double the power of the fastest GPU in this thread. Granted, gaming might still be a stretch but I would think it should be sufficient for ebooks and PDF. If a Nook Color with its considerably inferior CPU/GPU can handle ebooks and PDF, I don't know why the A31 couldn't (even after factoring for a difference in resolution).

However, battery life does seem to be a big issue with retina display China tablets. Unfortunately, 4000-6000mAH just won't cut it.

 

[squal]

hi
I sold my M8 pipo. and I am looking to buy a new tablet.
Momo 12, pipo M9 ?
Roman, why recommend momo 12 rather than the Pipo M8?
thanks

 

[janesh]

Not that anyone listens but you should avoid retina (out of China) right now. None of these chipsets have the horsepower to push a display with that high of a resolution.

1. Wait until a stronger processor/gpu becomes available in China tabs and THEN get a retina device... (8 months to a year at most? probably much sooner with the new Mali GPU right on the horizon and A15 around the corner)

2. Can't wait? Get a Ployer Momo 12 or a Momo 20 if you REALLY want that A31 Quad Core or go for one of the new Samsung Quad-Core devices (better choice) just make sure whatever you get has a really nice 10.1" 1280x800 IPS screen (the momo 12 has one of the absolute best out of china at present, I haven't tested the Momo 20) and be happy as that PPI looks very good and has the double, triple, and quadruple benefits of being more compatible with the app market, running buttery smooth, and not being a power whore...

Take my advice and be happy, don't take my advice and yes I will say "I told you so"

but in a nice way

Just my thoughts Roman, totaly agree with you, a very good advise.
A device with the exynos 4412 and even better as the ployer momo12, is the Ramos W42.
Screen brightness is very good the same as the momo12, and wifi reach and battery life is better. Faster no force closes, light, for me for sure a device to keep temporarily.

Send from my ployer momo11 quad.

 

[mkh]

thanks roman..i would rather wait another 8 months

..

its going to be quad core for sure by end 2013!..will wait to see the result of the exynos 4412 versus rockchip 3188 after few more firmware updates..i hope my pipo m2 holds on till then

quad core with 9.4inch 1200x800 IPS screen seems to be the choice for 2013(ramos w42 versus the pipo m9?)

can probably leave the retina chines ones for 2014!!

 

[BamaPanda]

hi
I sold my M8 pipo. and I am looking to buy a new tablet.
Momo 12, pipo M9 ?
Roman, why recommend momo 12 rather than the Pipo M8?
thanks

How did you like the M8 overall ...size; handling ...style?

I was all enamored by the M8, but the closer I looked I saw it was not what I needed ...too many folks reporting problems.

I like the the 9.4" size and shape, tho ...so i am looking to get the 9.4" Ramos W42.

I had never really considered Sony's size and shape too much before, but I am now seeing it is pretty ideal ...bigger than a 7"; giving the best of both the 9.7" and 10.1" sizes.

Cheers.

 

[BamaPanda]

Just my thoughts Roman, totaly agree with you, a very good advise.
A device with the exynos 4412 and even better as the ployer momo12, is the Ramos W42.
Screen brightness is very good the same as the momo12, and wifi reach and battery life is better. Faster no force closes, light, for me for sure a device to keep temporarily.

Send from my ployer momo11 quad.

Janesh ..
I am thinking you have the W42 and the Momo11. Would you care to share your impressions of both, such as ..
>batt life.
>best wi-fi
>best handling
>best build

Thanks

Note to J. Seen your response in the other thread. Looks like the W42 takes the crown. Won't be long for me now. Some extra funds just broke loose.

 

[janesh]

Yes i will do that but i think we better have to go to the Ramos W42 topic.

 

[Roman2025]

The Allwinner A31 uses a PowerVR SGX544MP2 350MHz (22 GFLOPS) which is between the iPad 2's PowerVR SGX543MP2 (16 GFLOPS) and the iPad 3's (32 GFLOPS) so it's not exactly accurate to say the iPad 3 has double the power of the fastest GPU in this thread. Granted, gaming might still be a stretch but I would think it should be sufficient for ebooks and PDF. If a Nook Color with its considerably inferior CPU/GPU can handle ebooks and PDF, I don't know why the A31 couldn't (even after factoring for a difference in resolution).

However, battery life does seem to be a big issue with retina display China tablets. Unfortunately, 4000-6000mAH just won't cut it.

Thanks for correcting

, I was mistaken regarding that. It would be interesting to see a benchmark comparison between an iPad 3 with the A5x and an A31 with a retina display though to see how well the performance difference really translates. It might be not as bad as I am thinking or it might be way worse. A 3D on-screen bench would help. Even with that performance though... it still just isn't enough imho based in the video reviews I have seen of any of the Chinese retina devices. They all have screen-tear/lag/stutter/chop when browsing the internet/pdf/etc. and especially noticeable with Pinch-To-Zoom. And most modern 3D gaming is rough to say the least. I have also read several places that compatibility with applications is also very adversely affected by the higher resolution.

I am not trying to dog Retina tech, I think it is great it has come but I still hold, based on the information and research that I have done thus far, that it is very pre-mature due to the underlying hardware.

Kind Regards,

Roman

 

[Roman2025]

hi
I sold my M8 pipo. and I am looking to buy a new tablet.
Momo 12, pipo M9 ?
Roman, why recommend momo 12 rather than the Pipo M8?
thanks

Ployer > Pipo... I have carried both brands. The M8 looks nice but the Ployer IS NICE of that I am sure. I haven't tested the M8 and they are delicious looking, don't get me wrong.

But PiPo really went downhill with QC so I dropped them and won't be carrying any of their products for at least the next year or so assuming they clean up. I just can't stand companies that have piss-poor QC.

The M9 looks nice, RK3188 and whatnot. Same issue though, it's the company behind it. I don't recommend PiPo or Ainol and I know they are two major brands but their QC is horrid an in Ainol's case they don't support what they make for more than a few months if they even make it that long.

Kind Regards,

Roman

 

[Roman2025]

Just my thoughts Roman, totaly agree with you, a very good advise.
A device with the exynos 4412 and even better as the ployer momo12, is the Ramos W42.
Screen brightness is very good the same as the momo12, and wifi reach and battery life is better. Faster no force closes, light, for me for sure a device to keep temporarily.

Send from my ployer momo11 quad.

Have you tested all 3 (momo 12, W42, and momo11 Quad)? If so, I am interested in hearing.

I tried to carry Ramos a while back but stopped as often they were priced to high and I wasn't impressed with the quality of the unit I tried out. They also tended to stick tiny batteries in their units. It sounds like they did better with the W42 though which is good to hear! I am not totally opposed to carrying Ramos, just haven't had much opportunity aside from when I dipped my toes in a while back.

Thanks for the thoughts, any more info you have if it is hands on is most welcome!

Roman

 

[Roman2025]

Yes i will do that but i think we better have to go to the Ramos W42 topic.

LOL - AM responding as I read down the line... I am going to check that thread out now.

Thanks!

 

[squal]

Thank you Roman for your analysis.
Personally, I found the M8 pipo very good especially in terms of power and responsiveness> 12,200 on AnTuTu.
I had the english stock rom with some tweaks.
At first I had some freeze and hangs. But I removed many system applications and everything is back in order. These are the firmware pipo not studied and optimized to provide the best, I think ...
others, 5 megapixel camera is bad, the finish is not quite correct. back bent a little under the fingers. the wifi was very correct comparison of a galaxy S2, it was best.
I ordered a momo 12 to compare with the M8.
And wait for the first returns on the M9...
Ramos does not inspire me in terms of quality...

 

[Roman2025]

Thanks for the last thought on Ramos. I had tried a unit from them several months back and was not all that thrilled either but I figured I just got a less than stellar model. Maybe not?

I liked the screen and design, but the overall quality was "meh"

 

[rui no onna]

Thanks for correcting

, I was mistaken regarding that. It would be interesting to see a benchmark comparison between an iPad 3 with the A5x and an A31 with a retina display though to see how well the performance difference really translates. It might be not as bad as I am thinking or it might be way worse. A 3D on-screen bench would help. Even with that performance though... it still just isn't enough imho based in the video reviews I have seen of any of the Chinese retina devices. They all have screen-tear/lag/stutter/chop when browsing the internet/pdf/etc. and especially noticeable with Pinch-To-Zoom. And most modern 3D gaming is rough to say the least. I have also read several places that compatibility with applications is also very adversely affected by the higher resolution.

I am not trying to dog Retina tech, I think it is great it has come but I still hold, based on the information and research that I have done thus far, that it is very pre-mature due to the underlying hardware.

I actually do expect to see some stutter/lag/tearing with web browsing on the A31 but viewing PDFs, comics and ebooks with an efficient app should be quite doable. The beauty of having a retina display is you don't have to zoom often as even fine print is legible at that pixel density (assuming you have good near vision). That said, the CPU on the A31 is definitely holding back performance and I would agree that retina on China tablets isn't ready for prime time just yet.

Here's a comparison of the Apple iPad 4, Apple iPad 3, Chuwi V99 (A31), Chuwi V99 (RK3066) and Asus TF700T (Tegra 3) in GLBenchmark:
http://glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?D1=Apple+iPad+4&D2=Apple+iPad+3&D3=Chuwi+CW-V99-QUAD&D4=Chuwi+V99&D5=Asus+Transformer+Pad+TF700T+Infinity&cols=5

EgyptHD 1080p results are representative of the 50% difference in GPU performance between the Apple A5X and Allwinner A31 but go up to 2048*1536 (onscreen) and the performance gap widens. This likely indicates a bottleneck elsewhere in the chain (probably the CPU or memory bandwidth).

I think the RK3188 is particularly interesting for FullHD and retina displays. While GPU performance is still lower compared to the Allwinner A31, the big boost in memory bandwidth and CPU performance should help quite a bit.

By the way, noticed there was no Tegra 3 in post #2 so here are the AnTuTu results for my Nexus 7 16GB.

AnTuTu 3.1.1
RAM: 1777
CPU Int: 3441
CPU Float: 2683
2D: 770
3D: 2871
Database: 130
SD write: 71
SD read: 27
CPU Freq: 1300 x 4

Overall: 11,770

 

[Crapler]

Not exactly about Rockchip. When the first RK3066 tablets were released (as well as engineering samples) they were initially clocked at 1.2-1.4ghz. Now the newest firmwares increased their clock speed to 1.6ghz (1608mhz) per core.

Same thing as RK3066 will probably be for the RK3188. This PiPo M9 is an engineering sample, The next firmware would probably clock the RK3188 to 1.8ghz.

1.6 is still very rare i think more comon is 1.4 but still there the question remains if the kernel is fully stable