Pandigital is selling a 6 inch ePaper-based Novel (sighted at Kohls)

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roebeet

Discussion Starter · Oct 15, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

I was at Kohls tonight, buying a vacuum cleaner - lo and beyond, I saw a dark colored Pandigital box advertising a 6 inch Linux-based device named the Pandigital Novel. But, it's an "ePaper" screen, probably similar to the Libre. 2GB of memory, microSD slot (I think), MP3 playback supported. I think it was $179 or $199, which was pretty high for a device like that, imo.I used to own a Libre with "ePaper". It's basically a low power greyscale LCD, like a old Palm device. Interesting, but not to my liking.

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sifon187

· #81 · Oct 19, 2010

derelicte;78883 said:
finally on the website now:Pandigital Novel eReaders | Pandigital Novel 6" Personal eReader

NVM did not mean what I posted

rokky

· #82 · Oct 21, 2010

Techno-lust

rokky

· #83 · Oct 21, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

When I saw they would be on sale today for $165, and I would get $15 rebate, 15% discount for using new Kohl's card, and anywhere from 15-30% off with the scratch-off lottery (why do I have the feeling 15% is most common card?), I figured what-the-hey, and went for it.First impression: light almost to point of being flimsy, but not quite. Screen is fairly readable in about any light, and very much like eInk - not like a color LCD-in-gray as I was expecting - more like the Palm and Handspring monochrome PDA's I have had.I checked with ADB to see if it might be mislabeled as Linux, but no response. However, reading the license section of the included pdf user guide, I saw no mention of any Linux/Free/Open-Source software licenses, so that looks a bit suspect. There were LOTS of dire warnings about messing with PD's "Intellectual Property" by reverse engineering (think the law is well-established that can be done for interoperability purposes, IANAL), or copying to another device (no ports to a Cruz I guess ;-) ), etc.I tried attaching a "reversing" USB adapter to the big end of its cable (it does charge through the USB, and still allows use if you do not choose mass storage mode), to see if a keyboard or optical mouse would register, but no go.Wifi connected to my home AP, and the browser opened up on the PD site - hardly readable, so don't get excited about that app.I took the back off to get a quick look at the innards, and main thing I noticed was no replaceble flash card as with the WPDN. There may be something pluggable in a ZIF type connector - see the pics I managed to get.The screen response is a bit erratic, and it does not respond to a stylus, but only finger tips - strikes me as worst of both resistive and capacitive types. I had a heck of a time getting my WEP key entered as it would suddenly repeat some of the virtual key taps, and of course it masks the entered characters about 1 second after entry - like someone is really going to read and memorize that key over my shoulder at home (or anywhere else considering the lack of screen readability at any distance/angle).See if the pics show anything of interest (I see a few of the better overview shots were too big to be allowed for upload - will try to see if some basic Linux photo editor will let me shrink them a bit in the next day or so - getting too late for that kind of a learning experience now):

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roebeet

Discussion Starter · #84 · Oct 21, 2010

Great post -- when you mentioned the screen being like a Palm monochrome PDA, that clinched it for me. It's the same kind of "ePaper" that the Libre has.

rokky

· #85 · Oct 21, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

[quote name='roebeet;79730]Great post -- when you mentioned the screen being like a Palm monochrome PDA' date=' that clinched it for me. It's the same kind of "ePaper" that the Libre has.[/QUOTE'] It looks a lot like my Sony PRS-600 Touch screen with same dimensions and resolution, and a shade darker overall, but a bit less glare from the digitizer layer, although I see a much sharper reflection of my reading lamp at the right angle. The physical dimensions are almost exactly the same, but being 1-2 ounces lighter, if feels even lighter in hand. The plastic frame is easier to grip, but does not feel as sturdy. Interestingly, the displays look so much alike that I am thinking this version of ePaper is just another name for eInk, not so much like Palm/Handspring mono screens as I was thinking - will do some more side by side comparisons with the Sony tonight.Not sure this puppy is worth keeping instead of the Sony or the WPDN - one of them (at least) is going back as the "loser(s)" ...

derelicte

· #86 · Oct 21, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

thanks for being the first.if you remove the battery does the screen go blank? eink won't. lcd type screens will.can you take any pics of the cpu?

jackbox

· #87 · Oct 21, 2010

tipstir;78879 said:
No it's should be 256 levels of gray. Shoot 16 levels of gray is like going back to CGA or EGA days..

Nope. Kindle is 16 shades of gray. Roebeet says it is the same display as the Libre which is 16 shades of gray. I know of no eInk or ePaper display that currently has more than 16 shades of gray. Here is a web page that lists all the displays available on the market. At the top is the one the PDN 6" is probably using. If you notice they are all 16 shades of gray. This technology is for reading text only. Not good for graphics and it refreshes way too slow to play video.E Ink & ePaper | Visionect Electronics

MarylandBill

· #88 · Oct 21, 2010

[quote name='roebeet;79730]Great post -- when you mentioned the screen being like a Palm monochrome PDA' date=' that clinched it for me. It's the same kind of "ePaper" that the Libre has.[/QUOTE'] Hi new poster here. I just wanted to clear a couple of things up since I have been researching this reader and a few other readers with SiPix screens.This screen is not the same as the Libre -- at least if we are referring to the ebook reader with a 5" screen. Though they may call it e-Paper, it is really simply a reflective LCD (I had the virtually identical Jetbook for almost two years). This unit, and one or two other e-readers that will be hitting the market in the next few months uses a SiPix display which is far more similar to eInk than LCD. They can't call it eInk though since that is a trade mark

. It sounds like it must use some sort of capacitive display if it only works with finger tips. Maybe they will get it to work better with future firmware updates.--Bill

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rokky

· #89 · Oct 21, 2010

derelicte;79941 said:
thanks for being the first.if you remove the battery does the screen go blank? eink won't. lcd type screens will.can you take any pics of the cpu?

Nope - image as shown in "sanyo0741" pic stays, although it seems to get some "artifacts" like smudges or blotches, but I think that was from my finger pressure.Not sure what the cpu looks like on that board - look at the pics some more to see if anything looks likely (I just added another board shot after gThumb'ing the image into a slightly smaller file to get it uploaded).

rokky

· #90 · Oct 21, 2010

[quote name='MarylandBill;80197]Hi new poster here. I just wanted to clear a couple of things up since I have been researching this reader and a few other readers with SiPix screens.This screen is not the same as the Libre -- at least if we are referring to the ebook reader with a 5" screen. Though they may call it e-Paper' date=' it is really simply a reflective LCD (I had the virtually identical Jetbook for almost two years). This unit, and one or two other e-readers that will be hitting the market in the next few months uses a SiPix display which is far more similar to eInk than LCD. They can't call it eInk though since that is a trade mark [IMG]http://www.slatedroid.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley.gif[/IMG]. It sounds like it must use some sort of capacitive display if it only works with finger tips. Maybe they will get it to work better with future firmware updates.--Bill[/QUOTE']I think you are correct about the source - I seem to remember seeing SiPix when I opened the back (not doing that again without good reason - about 10 tiny screws in plastic threads that I doubt will take many R-n-R cycles). And it does look almost identical to my Sony Touch screen in use, although the page turns generate back-and-forth bold/standard text flashing instead of the eInk inverse flashing but it is about equally annoying. The text does seem slightly "washed out" compared to the Sony, but it is not a big difference - maybe aludal could see font differences to explain the effect ;-) That capacitive touch seems "blocky", and not as precise as a couple Android phones I tried (and returned - that being one of my dislikes since I hate smudging up a screen and am used to fingernail tapping and/or a stylus for text entry ala Palm Graffiti, and WinMo Letter Recognizer).Also, I have been comparing the music playing, and the Sony has a better sound (surprise ;-) ) even to my impaired ear (the one that works at all). Also, the Sony has a nicer control interface, that is easy to access quickly from any other screen like the reader, as compared to the PDN's clunkier interface. About the only things I am liking better are the lighter weight and the option to directly download from B&N (untested as yet), but the Sony is only about 1-2 ounces heavier, depending on which specs I look at, and it is slightly slicker to the touch with that otherwise nicely solid-feeling aluminum frame. I do not get ebooks that often that the process of getting them is that big a negative (buy/download to Windows bookstore ebook client, remove the encryption, convert to epub with Calibre if needed, and copy to the reader). The batteries seem to be lasting a similar time of 4+ hours, but the Sony sat on the shelf so long before I got it on clearance, I suspect a new one would last a lot longer per typical eInk fashion.And if I don't find a way to hack into to the Linux underpinnings soon, there goes the last positive point for me.

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roebeet

Discussion Starter · #91 · Oct 22, 2010

Good to know that not all ePaper is alike - but, I still don't plan to get one.

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rokky

· #92 · Oct 22, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

From the license stuff (a "good" read for possessive paranoia in action) in the back of the user guide:No Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, Disassembly orCircumvention: You may not, and you will not encourage, assist orauthorize any other person to, modify, reverse engineer,decompile or disassemble the Device or the Software,[Oops! Don't tell them where those pix came from, y'all! Not the same deal as the original WPDN wherein you are shown how to "disassemble" sufficiently to change the internal micorSD card...]Oh, and don't assault anyone with this:"You may not use the Device, the Service or the Digital Content for any illegal purpose." I am thinking that Sharper Image Literati would be much better for smacking someone with anyway.Automatic Updates: In order to keep your Software up-to-date,Pandigital may automatically provide your Device withupdates/upgrades to the Software.I just did a port scan after activating the wifi, and found port 111 open, which can be used for this kind of thing. Is the (original) WPDN like that? Even so, we have more visibility into the Android OS than this "linux" device so far...Oh and don't worry about the privacy of any info they get from the device (and I thought Google was being snoopy with Android!): Information Received: The Device Software will provide Pandigitalwith data about your Device and its interaction with the Service(such as available memory, up-time, log files and signal strength)and information related to the content on your Device and youruse of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page readand content deletions from the Device). Information we receive issubject to the Pandigital Privacy Notice.Why do I have the feeling they will not be forthcoming with the source for this model?

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MarylandBill

· #93 · Oct 22, 2010

rokky;80258]I think you are correct about the source - I seem to remember seeing SiPix when I opened the back (not doing that again without good reason - about 10 tiny screws in plastic threads that I doubt will take many R-n-R cycles). And it does look almost identical to my Sony Touch screen in use said:
Well in fairness, the Sony.. at least if you are referring to the 650, is Sony's third try at a touch screen e-reader. They have had a long time to get the interface right. It also costs at least $40-50 more on the street.

About the only things I am liking better are the lighter weight and the option to directly download from B&N (untested as yet), but the Sony is only about 1-2 ounces heavier, depending on which specs I look at, and it is slightly slicker to the touch with that otherwise nicely solid-feeling aluminum frame. I do not get ebooks that often that the process of getting them is that big a negative (buy/download to Windows bookstore ebook client, remove the encryption, convert to epub with Calibre if needed, and copy to the reader). The batteries seem to be lasting a similar time of 4+ hours, but the Sony sat on the shelf so long before I got it on clearance, I suspect a new one would last a lot longer per typical eInk fashion.

Click to expand...

Only 4+ hours? Have you tried turning the wifi off? These units with ePaper should be able to operate for weeks between recharges... at least when wifi is off and they are being used for their intended purpose; reading.

And if I don't find a way to hack into to the Linux underpinnings soon, there goes the last positive point for me.

Click to expand...

--Bill

MarylandBill

· #94 · Oct 22, 2010

[quote name='roebeet;80269]Good to know that not all ePaper is alike - but' date=' I still don't plan to get one. [IMG]http://www.slatedroid.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE'] No particular need to. There are a number of really good ebook readers out there right now. I hope that this ends up being one of them, but the Sony readers are really nice, as is the Kindle 3, the Nook, etc.--Bill

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rokky

· #95 · Oct 22, 2010

[quote name='MarylandBill;80313]Well in fairness' date=' the Sony.. at least if you are referring to the 650, is Sony's third try at a touch screen e-reader. They have had a long time to get the interface right. It also costs at least $40-50 more on the street.Only 4+ hours? Have you tried turning the wifi off? These units with ePaper should be able to operate for weeks between recharges... at least when wifi is off and they are being used for their intended purpose; reading. --Bill[/QUOTE']I got my Sony PRS-600 Touch (eInk "v 2") on clearance for $85, so that might distort the "value proposition". It still looks (screenwise), sounds, and operates better IMO.This is only based on the last couple days since I have had the PDNL ("L" for Linux") - wifi off most off the time, playing music at work for about 3 hours. I guess it only went down half, so maybe that extrapolates out to 6 hours? Just a guesstimate on little data to be honest. Not sure if I had gotten it fully charged.

MarylandBill

· #96 · Oct 22, 2010

rokky;80572]I got my Sony PRS-600 Touch (eInk said:
Ah that is cool. I don't suppose I could ask for some comparison pictures between the two? I always thought the PRS-600 had a rather fuzzy screen, certainly fuzzier than the screen shots I have seen of this unit.

This is only based on the last couple days since I have had the PDNL ("L" for Linux") - wifi off most off the time, playing music at work for about 3 hours. I guess it only went down half, so maybe that extrapolates out to 6 hours? Just a guesstimate on little data to be honest. Not sure if I had gotten it fully charged.

Click to expand...

Ah, well that explains the battery life. I tend to think of my ebook readers as purely ebook readers. I have never bothered playing music on my Sony PRS-505 and as a result got weeks of battery life, even using it several hours a day. Anyway, thanks for all your efforts.--Bill

rokky

· #97 · Oct 22, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

[quote name='MarylandBill;80612]Ah that is cool. I don't suppose I could ask for some comparison pictures between the two? I always thought the PRS-600 had a rather fuzzy screen' date=' certainly fuzzier than the screen shots I have seen of this unit. Ah, well that explains the battery life. I tend to think of my ebook readers as purely ebook readers. I have never bothered playing music on my Sony PRS-505 and as a result got weeks of battery life, even using it several hours a day. Anyway, thanks for all your efforts.--Bill[/QUOTE']Sorry to refuse your screen shots request, but I have re-set and boxed this unit up to return. I can say that although the Sony's known fuzziness exists, caused by the digitizer per the reviews I have read, it still is "nicer" to view - maybe something to do with the differences in contrast (the PDNL looks fainter to me) and/or the fonts.My overall reasons for returning are that this is not well-enough "polished" for me to use as-is, and the restrictive legalese in the licensing terms I pointed out in an earlier post, despite how dubious they seem in terms of GPL requirements for anything distributed with Linux, rather discourage me from making the effort to add this to an already overflowing "projects list" to hack it into shape. The real kicker is their declared intrusiveness in pushing automatic updates and pulling logs from "my" machine - I may indeed be licensing their software (although the Linux part is open to debate), but as far as I can tell, I am buying the hardware (else why am I having to pay NC "sales" tax?), and logs are something I consider to be personal info they have no right to pull at their whim. However, I am not a lawyer, nor do I have the deep pockets to retain one, and I doubt I can get the EFF to add another case like this to their likely long list of suspected GPL infringers, so "include me out".UPDATE:Well, nuts - I see the exact same terms in the WPDNA (Android) User Guide, so I guess it is boilerplate without any connection to reality considering how much they have opened up the software with the Open Platform kit, and instructions on how to "disassemble the device" sufficient to upgrade the internal microSD. And I suppose if Android was sending logs (besides all the other exposures one agrees to in order to install most apk's, but those are not specifically grants to PD, rather to the programmer/vendor), we would have some info and remedies with Android development tools. If this device's terms yield to a similar reality check regarding the Linux base, I might revise my views, but I will stay away until that openness becomes evident (and my project list shrinks ;-) ). I should know better than to read all that legalese that seems unrelated to reality (until they want to hit someone over the head with it, so keeping the head low is most expedient).

rokky

· #98 · Oct 22, 2010 (Edited by Moderator)

[quote name='rokky;80658]Sorry to refuse your screen shots request' date=' but I have re-set and boxed this unit up to return. I can say that although the Sony's known fuzziness exists, caused by the digitizer per the reviews I have read, it still is "nicer" to view - maybe something to do with the differences in contrast (the PDNL looks fainter to me) and/or the fonts.My overall reasons for returning are that this is not well-enough "polished" for me to use as-is, and the restrictive legalese in the licensing terms I pointed out in an earlier post, despite how dubious they seem in terms of GPL requirements for anything distributed with Linux, rather discourage me from making the effort to add this to an already overflowing "projects list" to hack it into shape. The real kicker is their declared intrusiveness in pushing automatic updates and pulling logs from "my" machine - I may indeed be licensing their software (although the Linux part is open to debate), but as far as I can tell, I am buying the hardware (else why am I having to pay NC "sales" tax?), and logs are something I consider to be personal info they have no right to pull at their whim. However, I am not a lawyer, nor do I have the deep pockets to retain one, and I doubt I can get the EFF to add another case like this to their likely long list of suspected GPL infringers, so "include me out".[/QUOTE'] Well, nuts - I see the exact same terms in the WPDNA (Android) User Guide, so I guess it is boilerplate without any connection to reality considering how much they have opened up the software with the Open Platform kit, and instructions on how to "disassemble the device" sufficient to upgrade the internal microSD. And I suppose if Android was sending logs (besides all the other exposures one agrees to in order to install most apk's, but those are not specifically grants to PD, rather to the programmer/vendor), we would have some info and remedies with Android development tools. If this device's terms yield to a similar reality check regarding the Linux base, I might revise my views, but I will stay away until that openness becomes evident (and my project list shrinks ;-) ). I should know better than to read all that legalese that seems unrelated to reality (until they want to hit someone over the head with it, so keeping the head low is most expedient).

lawman

· #99 · Oct 24, 2010

This is some pretty disappointing news, given what we got out of the wpdn.

rokky

· #100 · Oct 24, 2010

[quote name='lawman;81592]This is some pretty disappointing news' date=' given what we got out of the wpdn.[/QUOTE'] Yeah - it might get interesting if anyone figures out to open up access to the Linux core (if that is what it really is), but I really can not spend any more time on it given the form/function/performance don't exceed (or even meet, for the most part) what I already have, so I am cutting bait on this one. Good luck to anyone else who wants to take on the challenge.

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