[Mike]

I'm almost certain that there's no dedicated GPU on the device. I have tried a couple of 3D games and they have all been very slow (indicating software rendering) - and that was just single objects rather than whole scenes. I have also tried GLBenchmark and it won't even run half of the tests. I do not have a WiFi connection at home, but as soon as I can access one then I'll upload the benchmark results (it won't let you view them until they have been sent to the server)

 

[Jae686]

[quote author=Mike link=topic=35.msg105#msg105 date=1273777751]I'm almost certain that there's no dedicated GPU on the device. I have tried a couple of 3D games and they have all been very slow (indicating software rendering) - and that was just single objects rather than whole scenes. I have also tried GLBenchmark and it won't even run half of the tests. I do not have a WiFi connection at home, but as soon as I can access one then I'll upload the benchmark results (it won't let you view them until they have been sent to the server)[/quote]OpenGL ES ?

 

[ECOTOX]

it has the drivers but no hardware accel, it will render by software

 

[ikanos]

For the money I can live without 3D acceleration, but 2D has to be much better than what I'm seeing with the browser, especially in portrait mode.Interesting that Google Maps scrolls quite smoothly in both directions in landscape mode but is much slower in both directions in portrait mode. Seems pretty clear it's a software optimization issue, in portrait mode for all apps, and in landscape mode for the browser (since it is so much smoother with Maps).I could be wrong, but I'm holding out hope for the possibility of major gains ;D

 

[ECOTOX]

I think its that the browser on the firmware is s#$t. I'm gonna be putting a better browser in soon

 

[KingDani]

[quote author=ECOTOX link=topic=35.msg432#msg432 date=1273904412]I think its that the browser on the firmware is s#$t. I'm gonna be putting a better browser in soon[/quote]ECO , i'm afraid i don't think it's the browser itself, it's the meager free RAM and slow CPU , it can not handle 2-3 windows at the same time , NO MATTER what browser you use , i used Skyfire , Dolphin HD and i am going to check Opera Mini as well , but don't get your hopes high on that. anyway , i think if there is one single way of improving it , it should be swapping some internal/SD memory for RAM , or overclocking this tortoisecheers

 

[bostwickenator]

Has anyone tried clocking it?

 

[ikanos]

Overclocking would get some gains but always less than the clock frequency gain due to other bottlenecks - e.g. if you increase clock by 20% you may only get a 10% real gain.I've also tried different browsers and they all behave the same way when scrolling - that's why I believe it's due to the graphics driver, which all browsers end up using and which should normally be optimized to particular hardware. I'm thinking this thing was just never optimized so they're running some generic Android code, so of course it's slow.For now I found turning off Gears and Java makes the webpages load up fast (stock browser has those options), and I just turn on Java when I know I need it for a particular website. It kind of compensates in the overall experience, but scrolling is still slow. I stick with landscape mode which is close to acceptable.

 

[KingDani]

[quote author=ikanos link=topic=35.msg496#msg496 date=1273939718]Overclocking would get some gains but always less than the clock frequency gain due to other bottlenecks - e.g. if you increase clock by 20% you may only get a 10% real gain.I've also tried different browsers and they all behave the same way when scrolling - that's why I believe it's due to the graphics driver, which all browsers end up using and which should normally be optimized to particular hardware. I'm thinking this thing was just never optimized so they're running some generic Android code, so of course it's slow.For now I found turning off Gears and Java makes the webpages load up fast (stock browser has those options), and I just turn on Java when I know I need it for a particular website. It kind of compensates in the overall experience, but scrolling is still slow. I stick with landscape mode which is close to acceptable.[/quote]you are absolutely right in every sense , but if we can't find proper drivers for it, it might not just do it. i mean if we can not get WonderMedia , VIA or EKEN to provide us with proprietary graphic drivers , this thing would cripple forever, luckily , i have seen a couple of cherrypads introduced a couple of days ago, though they were promised with android 2.1 and i am not sure drivers for 2.1 would be useful in 1.6anyway , i dearly hope everything would go alright.

 

[ECOTOX]

The drivers are there, the problem is that it uses a completely generic android build. Literaly they took the emulator kernel and put it on a device and slapped the drivers in there so it would work properly. if you tear apart the firmware you fins all the goldfish config files for the generic kernel

 

[KingDani]

[quote author=ECOTOX link=topic=35.msg529#msg529 date=1273964407]The drivers are there, the problem is that it uses a completely generic android build. Literaly they took the emulator kernel and put it on a device and slapped the drivers in there so it would work properly. if you tear apart the firmware you fins all the goldfish config files for the generic kernel[/quote]i was kinda hoping this thread been picked up by you dev guys , thnx ECOTOXwell that's what i'm saying , i think we need some proper drivers, because in my humble opinion , there is no way on earth a device could be this slow!!!! the only plausible explanation is that they just put an emulator on the device. my fear is , there is not enough costumization in place for you devs to do anything to it. do you think it would be possible to optimize the default drivers or are we 100% need a new set of drivers?

 

[Wozzzaaa]

[quote author=KingDani link=topic=35.msg530#msg530 date=1273965022][quote author=ECOTOX link=topic=35.msg529#msg529 date=1273964407]The drivers are there, the problem is that it uses a completely generic android build. Literaly they took the emulator kernel and put it on a device and slapped the drivers in there so it would work properly. if you tear apart the firmware you fins all the goldfish config files for the generic kernel[/quote]Is this a good thing? Doesnt this mean there are a lot of optimisations that can be made which should yield a lot of improvements?

 

[bostwickenator]

[quote author=Wozzzaaa link=topic=35.msg548#msg548 date=1273973272][quote author=KingDani link=topic=35.msg530#msg530 date=1273965022][quote author=ECOTOX link=topic=35.msg529#msg529 date=1273964407]The drivers are there, the problem is that it uses a completely generic android build. Literaly they took the emulator kernel and put it on a device and slapped the drivers in there so it would work properly. if you tear apart the firmware you fins all the goldfish config files for the generic kernel[/quote]Is this a good thing? Doesnt this mean there are a lot of optimisations that can be made which should yield a lot of improvements?[/quote]Yes it is a good thing if we have the skill to make said optimizations.[quote author=KingDani link=topic=35.msg530#msg530 date=1273965022][quote author=ECOTOX link=topic=35.msg529#msg529 date=1273964407]The drivers are there, the problem is that it uses a completely generic android build. Literaly they took the emulator kernel and put it on a device and slapped the drivers in there so it would work properly. if you tear apart the firmware you fins all the goldfish config files for the generic kernel[/quote]i was kinda hoping this thread been picked up by you dev guys , thnx ECOTOXwell that's what i'm saying , i think we need some proper drivers, because in my humble opinion , there is no way on earth a device could be this slow!!!! the only plausible explanation is that they just put an emulator on the device. my fear is , there is not enough costumization in place for you devs to do anything to it. do you think it would be possible to optimize the default drivers or are we 100% need a new set of drivers? [/quote]Drivers aren't quite that simple especially graphics ones. As this device does not have a graphics accelerator it will never perform well in this area. Even simple graphics acceleration hardware is a couple of orders faster than even the best CPU emulations. There may be some improvements that can be made but it is still having to be processed on a CPU that is not designed to deal with this kind of math. Of course we can't do anything without the driver sources. If we have those I would be happy to look them over I work with optimizing video processing quite often but this is a little out of my depth I must admit.

 

[ECOTOX]

Well, are you guys referring to UI performance? in android 1.6 the UI is software rendered so unless we overclock we arent going to get better in that area . OpenglEs needs a hardware accelerator to be faster or else it will default to software so its the same deal there. The problem isnt drivers, its that the hardware isnt there.

 

[ikanos]

Yeah, so I'm hoping the simple code for scrolling around is generic and very unoptimized, and that someone could figure out an optimized version for this device ... there's always hoping ;D

 

[esunday]

[quote author=ECOTOX link=topic=35.msg225#msg225 date=1273821193]it has the drivers but no hardware accel, it will render by software[/quote]It has a separate DSP running at 400 Mhz I think, is that for video as well as audio, and is it being used for video ??

 

[ECOTOX]

thats for 2d/video accleration, it wont help with the opengl or anything, purely for 2d applications