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Janesh ran Antutu 3 on Hero II & Onda V812. Hero II showed very strong performance for integer, float & RAM.
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/42580-onda-v812-quadcore-8-ips-tablet/page__view__findpost__p__476881

ATM7029 still comes out with higher results for those even if you scale up V812's # by 20%. ie. V812 quad Cortex A7 @ 1 GHz vs ATM7029 quad Cortex A5 or A9 @ 1.2 GHz. = 20% clock speed difference.

The A5 is a weaker ARM chip and CPU performance would be lower. Only 2 explanations. #1. Cortex A5 & not A9 or #2. Actions screwed up the part value and put in A5 instead of A9.

CPU benchmarks will prove which of these for sure. Right now, Antutu 3 results by Janesh are pointing to #2.
 

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OK. Good points Tzul.

vfp v4 is not supported on Cortex A9 with ARM's spec. Actions may have decided to make a "modified" Cortex A9 chip which includes vfp v4. ie. Cortex A9 + vfpv4. In order for software to make use of vfp v4 instructions, Actions would have to change the chip ID to A5 (or A7) because A9 does not support vfp v4. Or Actions made a 2nd error by including vfp v4 in the description. Or Actions has done a really amazing job tweaking the performance out of Cortex A5 architecture. Or Actions made Cortex A5 chip and found a way to "fool" Antutu benchmark to achieve better CPU results.

Whether Cortex A9 or A5 is really kinda irrelevant. What really matters is the CPU performance in the benchmarks. Presently, ATM7029 has a very strong showing in Antutu RAM, INT & FLOAT. Though we "should" test with other CPU benchmarks to confirm those to be true and accurate.

My N80 (RK3066) 2 x 1.6 GHz A9s w/Antutu 3
RAM: 1886
INT: 2520
FLOAT: 1825

Total CPU clock difference between Hero II & N80 = 50% (4.8 GHz VS 3.2 GHz)
We can see that ATM7029 scores very well against my N80. ie. does 43% better RAM score, 43% INT, 56% FLOAT. Notice that if you scale up my N80 results by 50% they would be very similar to ATM7029?

Take into account that Antutu is not super accurate either and chip design between RK3066 & ATM7029 are different too. ie. the results still seem "fairly" linear and are within acceptable differences

You missed my point before. Antutu "should" scale CPU results linearly for the same chip (ie. A31). A 1.2 GHz A31 should scale up linearly for CPU performance compared to A31 @ 1.0 GHz. I was scaling up the results for V812 (Cortex A7) & comparing those "scaled" V812 CPU results to ATM7029 Antutu results. The results "should" scale up linear based on clock speed when using the "same" ARM chip (ie. A31) because #1. the architecture is the same, #2. the chip design is exactly the same and #3 the same tests are being run. Imagine two Intel Core i3s (1st gen) chips. 1 @ 1.0 GHz & the other at 2.0 GHz. The only difference being their clock speeds. In theory, the CPU results would scale up linearly between the 1.0 & 2.0 GHz chips running the same tests. The 2 GHz chip should get 2X the CPU performance. ie. that would only make sense.

V812......V812 (@ 1.2 GHz)....Hero II
1 GHz.....1.2 GHz (scaled)....1.2 GHz
1547......1856.......................2690
2876......3451.......................3615
1830......2196.......................2845
*Notice how Hero II beats V812 (scaled). If ATM7029 is Cortex A5, then it should be scoring less and not more than scaled A31 (Cortex A7) chip.

My guess is that Actions created a Cortex A9 w/vfp v4 and changed the chip ID to Cortex A5 so software uses vfp v4 instructions. But, this all assumes and relies heavily on Antutu results being correct and not manipulated in anyway! More CPU testing will prove whether I am right or not with this "guess" or if Antutu was somehow fooled.

PS, the biggest problem I have seen with ATM7029 is 3D performance because they went with GC1000. ATM7029 chip would have been a winner if it had Mali400MP4 GPU. I would strongly advise people to avoid this chip just because of the very weak 3D performance.
 

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You need synthetic benchmarks otherwise you will never be able to measure and compare performance. =) For instance, gaming benchmarks are the best and most accurate but they test out CPU, RAM & GPU together. To get individual values for those requires running synthetic tests. Whether it be computing PI or testing with Antutu or CF-Bench, etc. Though relying on just a single benchmark is never good. Better to run and compare against a couple of different ones.

I still believe modified Cortex A9. So, they would not be lying then. =)
Though could be modified Cortex A5 but I doubt that because the performance in Antutu CPU tests looks really great. Finding Antutu 3 values for Cortex A5 chip and scaling them would help prove this.

Let's forget about A31 for now and just compare to RK3066 & 8726-MX instead.

INT & FLOAT scale up linearly with CPU frequency (in Antutu) as you have also proven. RAM not 1:1 but it does benefit from higher clock speed too. ie. 100% frequency increase = 100% increase to INT, 100% increase to FLOAT & 83-90% increase, when working with dual cores, to RAM.

Notice how ATM7029 scores similar to 729 * 2.87 for INT but much higher for FLOAT (792 * 3.23). ie. Action really improved the FPU performance on their chip probably by going with vfpv4. That is why their chip appears to be Cortex A9 w/vfpv4 to me. For ATM7029: INT compares to dual A9 @ 2.27 GHz and FLOAT compares to dual A9 @ 2.56 GHz.

Code:
<br />
      | 792MHz  |  1320MHz ||  792MHz * 1.67 || 792MHz * 2.02 || 792 * 2.87          || ATM7029<br />
                                             (Dual A9 @ 1.6 GHz) (Dual A9 @ 2.27 GHz)   quad 1.2 GHz<br />
------+---------+----------++----------------++--------------------------------------------------<br />
RAM   |   1023  |     1590 ||  1708          || 2066          ||  <br />
INT   |   1258  |     2089 ||  2101          || 2541          ||  3610               || 3615<br />
FLOAT |    881  |     1480 ||  1471          || 1780          ||  2528               || 2845<br />
You have proven, in your previous post, that INT & FLOAT scale linearly per frequency & per core in Antutu tests. In that case, for INT, we can do, 2 x 2.27 = 4.54 GHz Cortex A9 and 2 x 2.56 = 5.12 GHz for FLOAT. ie. INT comes very close to 4.8 GHz A9 and FLOAT results are similar to 5.1 GHz A9.

True, that creating a more unique chip design than the standard Cortex A9 one from ARM could change performance but only to a point. ie. 5-10% CPU performance difference is possible between different Cortex A9 chips @ same clock frequency. Only so much extra performance you can squeeze out of a certain chip architecture with extra tweaks.

By the way, seeing "4.8 GHz VS 3.2 GHz" makes me cringe.
I have been working with SMP machines since 2003 so I know that is not true. ie. app first has to be multi-threaded otherwise only 1 core gets used. 2nd, even then, the app may only achieve maximum of 70-85% performance increase per additional core because of the app's code and/or OS. 2 cores does not mean 2X the performance. =) Though some OSes, like BeOS/Haiku, will get 95% efficiency (or higher).
 

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PS, Antutu maybe wrong with the #s too. Vellamo Metal gives ATM7029 score of 251. My N80 gets 500 which is double in score. The Metal tests appear to be CPU & memory tests & maybe disk access too.
http://www.quicinc.com/vellamo/

It makes no sense why ATM7029 scores very well in Antutu CPU & RAM tests and poorly in Metal benchmark. That is why other CPU benches are needed to know what is really going on here. ie. two benchmarks and both saying different things. Believe Antutu, then looks like Cortex A9. Believe Metal, then Cortex A5. Who should we believe?

I still tell people to avoid ATM7029 because should always buy a balanced computer/tablet. ie. RK3066 has way better balance than ATM7029 between CPU & GPU power.

Edit: I probably would believe Vellamo over Antutu benchmark because made by Qualcomm. Also, many newer devices benched in Metal get 450-700 score. Like Note II with score of 619.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quicinc.vellamo&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5xdWljaW5jLnZlbGxhbW8iXQ..

So, very likely that ATM7029 is really quad Cortex A5 like you said. More CPU tests have to be run to know for certain though.
 

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So Is this ATM7029 the different from Hero II , because it have Mali-400.
ATM7029 is one chip with certain specs. You cannot have ATM7029 with Mali400 and another with GC1000. Some sellers are lying or do not know the chip specs. Chinese sellers only care about selling goods. Some tablet makers are to blame too because I have seen Ainol & Ramos say Mali400 GPU which is not true.

Action very likely re-branded Vivante's GC1000 GPU. Half or more of the sites say GC1000 for GPU. If you look here you will see the GPU comes up as:
Advanced Graphics Corporation
S5 Multicore
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro25&D=Ainol+Novo+10+Hero+QuadCore&testgroup=gl

I have never heard of Advanced Graphics Corp. before ATM7029. That leads me to believe a re-brand of another GPU.

Here is GlBenchmark compare of Novo10 Quad VS Cube U30GT-H:
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro25&showhide=true&data-source=1&D1=Ainol%20Novo%2010%20Hero%20QuadCore&D2=Cube%20Technology%20U30GT-H

Many tests fail with newer GLbenchmark but can at least see:
Code:
<br />
                          Novo10 Quad     U30GT-H<br />
2.1 Egypt Classic            <br />
Offscreen (1080P)            2529          6642<br />
<br />
2.1 Egypt Classic            3456          6797<br />
  Onscreen<br />
ie.
in offscreen mode, at 1920x1080, U30GT is 2.63X (163%) more powerful at HD resolution
in onscreen mode, 1280x800, U30GT is 1.97X (97%) more powerful

I wish there were more GLBenchmark "game" type benches to look at but that one will just have to do.

PS, and now it looks like the CPU could very likely be Cortex A5 too which is way weaker than Cortex A9. This will add another very good reason to avoid ATM7029 chip. ie. weak GPU & CPU.
 

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If you want strong ARM chip today go with one of:
RK3066, Exynos Quad or A31

In few months time, you can add RK3188 to that list.

Tablets with those ARM chips are the ones worth buying. Forget about ATM7029 & 8726-MX chips. The ARM chip is the most important part. It determines performance. 2nd is the tablet brand.
 
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I just did the vellamo benchmark with three devices, here the results.

Onda V812, Metal 372, HTML5 1120
Hero ii, Metal 254, HTML5. 942
Ployer momo8,Metal 514, HTML5 1563
Hi Janesh. Thanks for your benches.

You can see that ATM7029 is the worst of all 3 of those chips. RK3066 is the best. It also shows how ATM7029 does poorly in both CPU & GPU sides. Add to that, losing 166 MB of RAM over RK3066.

I believe Metal runs single threaded tests but cannot say for sure. If metal is single (or dual) threaded, that would explain why momo8 does so well compared to the other two tablets. But, even if multi-threaded, Cortex A5 & A7 would still lose because slower architectures, slower CPU speeds and because of efficiency.

HTML5 tests out GPU, CPU & Network stack. Metal is CPU, RAM & disk. Good seeing those tablet comparisons.

Many apps are dual or single threaded so a fast dual core Cortex A9 (or better, A15) will run better than a lower clocked quad CPU tablet! That is why RK3066 will give better CPU performance over A31 most of the time.
 

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http://tabletrepublic.com/forum/latest-tablet-news/ainols-quad-core-line-up-3024-2.html

Interesting page and topic on tabletrepublic, where some predict month agoo what is the matter with ATM7029.
Actually a chip designer told Frank the ATM7029 was using Cortex A7. Though it really turned out to be Cortex A5. A7 would still have been good but A5 is not. A5 is very weak.
http://tabletrepublic.com/forum/latest-tablet-news/ainols-quad-core-line-up-3024-2.html#post30151

Though I am very disappointed how Antutu gives this chip a very high score for INT & FLOAT tests with an A5 architecture. Antutu really surprised me because it outputs a really high total score for the Hero II even though it has weaker CPU & GPU. Go figure! That is why I have never been a big fan of Antutu benchmark.
 

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I sold him Nickos, very disappointing performance in daily use. I just saw a pandawill video, where they showed a antutu score above 14000 and quadrant 3750. I think they lie, I just did another quadrant test, result 3050.
Yeah, that makes no sense because you were getting in the 12,000s for Antutu and only 3050 for Quadrant. Very big difference in #s from PandaWill. Better to get results from non-sellers (ie. Chinese review sites) because you never know if the Chinese sellers are being truthful or not.

A31 stuff I answered in here:
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/41760-official-specifications-of-the-allwinner-a31/page__view__findpost__p__493841
 

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I'm getting consistent low 12000 Antutu from the Hero IIs I have for testing. No more, no less. So that puts it 3000 faster than a Hero I.

I gave these ATM7029 tablets a fair chance. So far I'm not impressed.
Antutu is bad benchmark to use. Do not trust it. ATM7029 ranks very well in Antutu but does badly in bunch of other benchmarks like Vellamo's HTML5 & Metal, Nenamark2, Quadrant, etc.

No idea how Antutu gives it such a high score when other benchmarks do not. I am disappointed that Antutu ranks it very high. Gives false illusion that it is really great when it is not.

The better ARM chips today, ranked in terms of GPU performance are: A31, Exynos Quad, RK3066
Add to that RK3188 once it comes out in about 2 (or 3) months time. Those are the only really great chips coming out of China to choose from.

In terms of battery life: RK3066 then Exynos Quad/A31. Difference of about 30-60 mins on 8" 1024x768.

PS, ATM7029 compares to Tegra2/OMAP4 GPU performance. The other ARM chips I list above perform equal or better than Tegra3 GPU. 8726-MX performs in middle of Tegra 2&3.
 

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So, Antutu Benchmark was just updated to version 3.1.1.
And I've been told that the Hero 2's score dropped from 12000 to 6200 or so. Can somebody confirm?
My Aurora 2 (dual-core A9) still gets 9200.
According to this site:
http://mp3.zol.com.cn/352/3529308.html

Antutu 3.1
ATM7029: 6600
A31: 12000
RK3188: 18000

My N80 (RK3066): 11900

Exynos 4412 gets 15xxx with Antutu 3.0(?). Probably close or same with Antutu 3.1.

Seems like Antutu finally fixed their benchmark software. 6600 is way more realistic for ATM7029. ie. gets low total score because of GPU & CPU. Hopefully now the scores are all right.
 
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LOL! Like the fake 1.2 GHz of the allwinner a10!
I think Actions and AllWinner are cousins!!! =) Both like to tell big lies about their specs. You forgot the A31 chip. I heard 1.4 GHz when first coming out and it ended up being 1 GHz instead.

Actually, a few tablets clocked the A10 @ 1.2 GHz but it was marketed as 1.5 GHz chip by AllWinner. Though most tablets ran A10 @ 1 GHz like you say.

A10 - marketed 1.5 GHz - actual 1 GHz (few coming w/1.2 GHz overclocked speed)
A31 - marketed 1.4 GHz - actual 1 GHz
ATM7029 - marketed 1.5 GHz Cortex A9 - actual 1.2 GHz Cortex A5. Huge lie!!! They have just trashed their reputation by doing this.
RK2918 - marketed 1.2 GHz - actual 1 GHz
8726-MX - marketed 1.5 GHz - actual 1.2 (or 1.3?) GHz

Rockchip even lied with RK2918 because their site said 1.2 GHz but my tablet & others ran RK2918 @ 1 GHz. At least it was a small lie by Rockchip and they told the truth with RK3066.

Edit: made a couple of changes and added in 8726-mx
 

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The Amlogic chip is a 1.5ghz part that Ainol underclock because their implementation of it gets too hot. I don't really blame Amlogic for that, its still their highest supported speed if you give it an opportunity to cool itself and enough juice.
Actually, the chip is not designed well and that is why it was clocked lower. Same thing goes for AllWinner A31.

Dual core 40nm in theory can go to 1.5 GHz. Dual core 28nm in theory can reach 2 GHz. Quad core versions are 200 MHz less. ie. Tegra3 @ 1.3 GHz. A perfect chip design would reach those max available speeds and only get slightly hot while 3D gaming. ie. A31 should have been able to run at 1.3 or 1.2 GHz had the chip design been really great. 8726-MX @ 1.5 GHz. But that is not the case for either of those chips and why they have to be clocked to lower speeds.

RK3066 (40nm) is able to handle 1.6 GHz while still working very well. 8726-MX tried for 1.5 GHz but was getting very hot while 3D gaming. A complaint I heard a couple of times from people. That is a clear sign the chip was not able to properly handle the higher clock speed. 8726-MX is very likely a 1.2 GHz chip running at higher clock speed.

You can take any CPU out there and overclock it, but you run into higher heat and stability issues. 8726-MX @ 1.5 GHz was set way too high for the chip to properly handle. It was clocked that high to compete against RK3066 @ 1.6 GHz.

For those that want to 3D game. Are they supposed to play 5 mins. at a time to allow 8726-MX to stay cool??? A chip should be able to run stable and slightly hot for at least 1 or more hours while 3D gaming. My desktop, laptop & RK3066 tablet can all do this but 1.5 GHz 8726-MX tablet certainly cannot. I hear it gets extremely hot while 3D gaming @ 1.5 GHz.
 
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That's quite an allegation. Do you have any proof? Amlogic designed the chip for up to 1.5GHz according to their documentation, and it can actually deliver that. So far munka is right.
I was just questioning whether "it gets too hot" is the real reason you don't see 1.5GHz on Amlogic that often.
It's similar to a chicken and egg problem:
1. Is 1.5GHz not used because the chip gets too hot?
2. Is 1.5GHz not used because some chips would be unstable without a voltage bump, which in turn would increase heat too much?
Only way for me to prove it is by buying an 8726-MX tablet, having proper test equipment to monitor chip temps and then running lots of tests to stress CPU and CPU+GPU. Otherwise, I can only base my assumptions on what I hear and see.

If the chip was really meant to run @ 1.5 GHz then Ainol would not have under-clocked it. The chip is being pushed past its limit. Ainol realized this and reduced the clock frequency on it. ie. getting too hot @ 1.5 GHz. A tablet maker reducing the frequency of the chip is not a good sign! Points to some type of issue with the chip. Simple as that.

Just because you can run a chip (whether CPU, GPU or combined) at a certain speed does not mean it was meant to handle that high clock speed. Some chips can be clocked too high which causes issues like heat and instability. Too much heat shows chip is pushed way too high. Also, people should not have to boost voltage to run a chip stable. Doing this means the chip is not meant to run at the higher clock speed in 1st place or not the highest quality to begin with.

Last I checked this is an ARM site so clock rates listed should be assumed for 40nm & 28nm "ARM chips" unless specified otherwise. =) I was not talking x86 but ARM. I have seen almost no posts for x86 on this site.

PS, try running Asphalt 7 @ 1.5 GHz for 1 hour and see how hot that 8726-MX gets. A real intense 3D game will push that ARM chip to the max. ie. pushing both the CPU & GPU to extremes.

PPS, the high heat maybe caused by the GPU clock speed instead. Both the CPU & GPU are integrated on one chip. One way to know for sure if CPU is the actual problem is by looping a CPU benchmark/test for 60 mins and monitoring chip temp & checking for errors. That will remove the GPU factor. Then can run bench that stresses both CPU & GPU and any temp higher than recorded just for CPU test would be because of the GPU. High detail 3D gaming tests out both at the same time and really pushes and stresses out an ARM chip.

I cannot say for sure if the problem is because of the CPU, GPU or CPU+GPU clock speeds contributing to the very high heat. Whatever the case may be; it is a problem that Ainol decided to fix by lowering CPU clock speed. Ainol realized the high heat in the 8726-MX chip was an issue and clocked it lower to reduce the heat problem. I have seen multiple people complain about their hands getting really hot when 3D gaming with 8726-MX. One person saying he owned both RK3066 & 8726-MX tablets and with Rockchip getting slightly hot while Amlogic becoming very hot while 3D gaming.
 
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Wrong. The chip is meant to run at 1.5GHz.
Not just Ainol doing this. Same for Zenithink too. They run C93 @ 1.2 GHz and probably their other 8726-MX tablets too.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-2-Z102-Android-4-0-Tablet-PC-Zenithink-zt280-Cortex-A9-1GHz-8GB-1GB-DDR3/344858872.html
http://zenithink.com/Eproducts_C93.php

Wait. Same thing for Onda 8726-MX tablets too. 1.2 GHz.
http://chinatablets.info/?p=2143&lang=en

It is not just Ainol (1 tablet maker). 3 tablet makers I have found so far searching quickly. Tablet makers would prefer to run 8726-MX @ 1.5 GHz if it could handle high heat and/or be stable but it just cannot. You think tablet makers like having to under-clock 8726-MX to 1.2 (or 1.3) GHz??? They do not like doing this but they realized the chip was only meant for 1.2/1.3 GHz max speed to run with lower heat and/or stable.

Um, I was talking about ARM (except when mentioning the excessive heat of an AMD Turion X2).
This is an ARM chip that clearly proves your rule of thumb wrong.
OK. You found a post saying 28nm can reach 3.1 GHz. GREAT!!! Where can I buy a tablet with 3 GHz ARM chip??? Please tell which tablet has a 3 GHz dual or quad core ARM chip. I and many others would love to buy one!!! Oh wait, you mean I cannot get one. So, 3.1 GHz is more of a "theory" whereas 2 GHz is actual (or reality). Show me a 28nm ARM chip inside some tablet that runs at 3 GHz and I will say you are right!!! I wonder why Rockchip is only giving us a 1.6 GHz quad then with RK3188? I guess they should have been able to do 2 GHz without any issues since 3 GHz appears to be the max speed? Or maybe I am right instead?

You may have missed the part that read "ARM A9 at TSMC 28HPM delivers performance speed range from 1.5GHz to 2.0GHz, suitable for mobile computing." 3 GHz is for high performance. So, maybe the chip can get pushed to 3 GHz but I can only imagine the heat it will produce at that speed.

Edit:
TMSC created a 3.1 GHz Cortex A9 dual to test out the max speed achievable. No information what type of cooling was used for it. Can only assume that it will require heatsink & fan. For tablets & phones, 2 GHz is the max speed you will see with 28nm.
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/tsmc-clocks-a-28nm-cortex-a9-processor-at-3-1ghz-2012054/
 
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Maybe tablet makers thought that 1.3ghz would be optimal for most customers and the additional 200mhz per core would not give much advantage?
It was actually because of high heat. Too many people complaining tablet was getting hot where the ARM chip is while 3D gaming. Otherwise these tablets makers would have kept it at 1.5 GHz. I think only a few 3D games caused this to happen.

Games like Asphalt 7 & WildBlood are very intense and really push the GPU to the limit. 8726-MX appears to have trouble running those two games in normal mode?
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/35482-hd-games-workinggameloft-etc/page__view__findpost__p__459050
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/35482-hd-games-workinggameloft-etc/page__view__findpost__p__603986

Anyways, this thread has gone way off-topic so best to continue this in another thread instead. Though I've said enough. Also, I get part of the blame for not moving my 1st off-topic post into a new thread and linking to it instead.

Back to ATM7029 chip discussion. Later,
 
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the RK3066 is a nice chip, but depending on the tablet (elf ii & crystal) it gets hot really hot when playing games
Ainol uses mostly 8726-MX chip for their dual core tablets. They do not use any RK3066 chips. Later,
 

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Same thing with the aoson M723 also, specs is given as a A9, CPU info shows otherwise. Is the A7 any better ?

Screenshot_2014_02_03_16_22_32.jpg
Aoson M723 has ATM7029 chip. All ATM7029 chips are Cortex A5.

CPU info app above appears to be missing CPU part & CPU revision info. You need to look at CPU part to see chip type. 0xc09=Cortex A9, 0xc05=Cortex A5, 0xc07=Cortex A7, etc.

Maybe Actions Semi. hid CPU part for ATM7029? Try with terminal. cat /proc/cpuinfo to see what shows up for CPU part. CPU part should show up after CPU variant. See 1st post for info.
 
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