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well it turns out that there are some interesting reports about the new next gen amlogic SOC. So one of the websites called tom's hardware said that the SOC will feature a quad core cortex a9 cpu with a frequency of 2ghz based on 28nm processor, plus the chip supports dual-channel DDR3 and LPDDR3, 64-bit ECC, and a 128-bit memory interface. the gpu that this chip will use is MALI-450MP8(maybe m6, not sure about that) that clocked at 250mhz and it capable to get 45GFLOPS(while rk3188 delivers between 19.2 to 24gflops), it offers a fill rate of 2,000 Mpix/s. the Mali 450 supports 4K Video and Ultra HD decoding along with a host of other media standards including Dolby DS1 and DTS. Notebook Check further reports that the Mali 450 will also be available in a six-core variant, the Mali MP6, which will reportedly offer 25 percent less performance.

well, this is all the information that i found for now. so when it will be launched, the source says SOMEWHERE IN Q3 2013.
 

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Thanks User7 for all the info. I personally have been loyal to Rockchip for their processors since I first tried the rk3066. I have heard bad things about the performance of Amlogic SOC's, so I have avoided them. This one, however, looks promising with its GPU. Id love to see how it compares to Rockchip's RK3188 on Antutu. I know Antutu is not always the best indicator of performance, especially with the new Xaomi MI 3's leaked score of 84000
 

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Thanks User7 for all the info. I personally have been loyal to Rockchip for their processors since I first tried the rk3066. I have heard bad things about the performance of Amlogic SOC's, so I have avoided them. This one, however, looks promising with its GPU. Id love to see how it compares to Rockchip's RK3188 on Antutu. I know Antutu is not always the best indicator of performance, especially with the new Xaomi MI 3's leaked score of 84000
Like what? Voice your hearings. Or do you mean readings?
 

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Amlogic's picture above only shows Mali450-MP6. Mali450 can support up to 8 pixel/fragment processors & 1 vertex processor.


I say 1 vertex processor because of ARM's image above plus can see from description below:
http://arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-graphics-hardware/mali-450-mp.php?tab=Performance

that the triangles/sec count is the same whether Mali450-MP4 or Mali450-MP8 at same clock speeds.

Looks like Amlogic decided to add a 2nd vertex processor to their Mali450 GPU design to double # of triangles? But triangle count seems low. Or their image is wrong??? Confusing.

Note, ARM only counts # of fragment/pixel processors. Vertex is not included in that.
 

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It's all going to come down to price of the end product though I think. The Samsung exynos 5540 dual core a15 with the much more powerful mali-t604 is already shipping in some China tabs. I don't foresee this chip outperforming that... Especially in per-core performance which is much more predictive of the real world vs. multi-thread. Sorry, didn't mean to rain on a parade here. I find the new amlogic chip interesting, I just have a feeling it might have its thunder already stolen by the time it shows up in devices on shelves.

Cheers,

Roman
 

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Amlogic m8 will certainly have all my 3 aosp based roms, and I offer a kind of support that anybody else offers so for many people this makes it a deal breaker even if it's slightly less powerful than something without a solid custom rom base

Can't wait til I get one and start working on it, just think that the Mx kicks ass to every other dual core devices (and even to the A31 quad) and I'm not just talking about number or benchmarks I'm talking about real user experience that is a sum of smoothness, battery life, custom roms with extra features (in fact the M6 was the first china tab having a 4.2 rom: my CM10.1/AOKP4.2/PA3 with a daily driver within 20 days from source drop)
 

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It's all going to come down to price of the end product though I think. The Samsung exynos 5540 dual core a15 with the much more powerful mali-t604 is already shipping in some China tabs. I don't foresee this chip outperforming that... Especially in per-core performance which is much more predictive of the real world vs. multi-thread. Sorry, didn't mean to rain on a parade here. I find the new amlogic chip interesting, I just have a feeling it might have its thunder already stolen by the time it shows up in devices on shelves.

Cheers,

Roman
Maybe the idea of amlogic is to position it against the RK3168 and other mid-tier chips instead of the high-end. I certainly wouldn't mind, for example, an updated Archos Gamepad with this chip (and of course, better designed).
 

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Amlogic m8 will certainly have all my 3 aosp based roms, and I offer a kind of support that anybody else offers so for many people this makes it a deal breaker even if it's slightly less powerful than something without a solid custom rom base

Can't wait til I get one and start working on it, just think that the Mx kicks ass to every other dual core devices (and even to the A31 quad) and I'm not just talking about number or benchmarks I'm talking about real user experience that is a sum of smoothness, battery life, custom roms with extra features (in fact the M6 was the first china tab having a 4.2 rom: my CM10.1/AOKP4.2/PA3 with a daily driver within 20 days from source drop)
I only ever had one MX device and as luck would have it, it blew up on me shortly after turning on. I always saw it as a value alternative but usually wrote it off due to benchmark performance being so low. Also, based on the esesrch I had done it wasn't particularly great on battery vs. Other platforms .

That all being said, I completely agree on benchmarks not telling the whole story. I always felt that the tegra 3 and the Samsung quad chips were noticeably smoother and faster than they rk3066 and even rk3188, even though the rk3066 matched or surpassed the t3 in most benchmarks and the rk3188 surpassed all. I used to swear by it until I sat down with a Samsung quad and was surprised bumpy how much smoother everything was. If amlogic pulls off a similar trick they certainly get the nod from me.

Overall I am excited for this chipset as long as it fits its pricing bracket which should settle somewhere decently above the rk3188 (assuming they use the 8 core mali andnot the 4) and well behind the Samsung dual a15 assuming performance falls where expected. The die shrink should also help them immensely with power consumption, it makes a notable difference between the 40 nm rk3066 and the 28 nm rk3188.

Cheers,

Roman

The Mali t604 is more than a slight upgrade over the 400/450.
 

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For those who were wondering, I was really curious as to where the t604 stood relative to other GPU packages out there. This was the best I could find after some digging. The off screen tests are probably the best for comparison as they should take resolution out of the mix.

http://globetechhub.com/mali-t604-vs-400mp-vs-sgx-554mp4-vs-543mp4-vs-543mp3-vs-543mp2-vs-540-vs-535-vs-adreno-320-vs-225-vs-220-vs-305-vs-203-vs-205-vs-intel-xolo/

You can see the Mali 400 is showing its age, even in the galaxy s3. I would be curious to see results for an rk3188 as supposably it has a higher GPU clock.

The 450 is absent as here-to-for it hasnt been used in any chipsets that i am aware of. I actually think all this bodes quite well for the new amlogic chipset. Especially if they are using the 450 MP8 as it theoretically should pull about twice the performance at least of a comparatively clocked 400 MP4. While still not as fast as the t604, it would still be an absolute beast and definitely worth it if price $30 - $50 less than a comparable Samsung powered device all other things being equal.

I will add this. The Mali T604 isn't just a speed increase over the previous generation GPUs from arm. It is also a complete architecture overhaul which included some major improvements like a move to using unified shaders (Google it, it is a good thing) and the first GPU from arm to support direct x 11 (the first to support direct x at all...). Whether Direct X support makes a difference in the next 2 years is anyone's guess as it depends on game developers taking advantage of it. Overall the t604 and the midgard architecture it is built on is an evolutionary move towards mobile having computer/console level gaming graphics. Whether those changes make a bit of difference anytime soon though I am not sure.
 

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I doubt amlogic got a custom GPU design (stranger things have happened and it has taken them a while to get this to market so maybe...). Most likely they have either a Mali 450 mp4 or an mp8. I don't think there is an mp6 and as far as I know there is no Mali 4xx chip with more than 1 vertex processor, hence as another user noted the triangle count remains unchanged from a Mali 400 mp2 to an mp4 and from a 450 mp4 to a 450 mp8. My guess is their marketing schematic for their chip is just incorrect which happens a lot with new chipsets. Triangle crunching was always a weakspot for Mali parts. Let's hope they got a Mali 450 mp8!
 

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The T604 is not that big thing, specially on FHD resolutions, only IT's (powervr) solutions can handle those resolutions properly (see the A31 that has a damn good GPU, at 2048x1536 gives 45/50 FPS on epic citadel). GPU on android devices have really done a great jump ahead but nowadays they are two steps back because many devices are using >= 1920x1080 resolutions.
Just think that to playing FHD on a pc without too many hassles you need a GTX 550 ti, and future game won't let you max everything.
I know that android games can't be compared to PC games since the most good lookin' one may be compared with a PS2 at most (or a PC one from early 2k)...
 

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The T604 is not that big thing, specially on FHD resolutions, only IT's (powervr) solutions can handle those resolutions properly (see the A31 that has a damn good GPU, at 2048x1536 gives 45/50 FPS on epic citadel). GPU on android devices have really done a great jump ahead but nowadays they are two steps back because many devices are using >= 1920x1080 resolutions.
Just think that to playing FHD on a pc without too many hassles you need a GTX 550 ti, and future game won't let you max everything.
I know that android games can't be compared to PC games since the most good lookin' one may be compared with a PS2 at most (or a PC one from early 2k)...
The A31 has an SGX544 MP2 on-board which is certainly stronger than the Mali-400 MP4 (by about 10 - 25% at most) in the RK3066/3188. It (the SGX544 MP2) is still about 1/3 - 1/4 the performance of a Mali-T604 though if benchmarks can be believed at all. PowerVR definitely has a clear-lead on the very high end though and they are particularly good vs. the Mali 400 chips on anything that is heavy on geometry processing and lighter on pixel crunching. My issue with the A31 was always primarily with the processor itself though which has very poor single-threaded performance (primarily due to it using cortex-a7 cores and clocking out at 1.2 Ghz max) and higher power consumption due to it being built on a 40 nm process. I found it to be a bit of an odd chip, as it is very strong on the GPU side most certainly but a bit lackluster on the processor side. Thinking back to the Allwinner A10 days you could actually say the same. The Mali 400 MP2 it had was quite quick (relative to what else was available) but the cortex-a8 processor was quite sluggish so gaming worked pretty well but everything else tended to lag a bit.

The Citadel results at retina resolutions though are really impressive. Having tested the RK3188 on a few different platforms I felt like the GPU really lacked the punch it should have had to go with the processing cores. It to, is then a bit unbalanced, being a strong processor but the GPU oddly enough doesn't perform as well as it should. Oddly enough, the Samsung Exynos 4412 Quad devices I have tested (which use the same GPU) play games flawlessly that would otherwise struggle on an RK3188. Go figure. I think it has a lot to do with driver optimization and not grunt, that is the only explanation I can come up with. I haven't tested any RK3188 units on android 4.2.2 yet though and I wonder if perhaps things have been smoothed out for gaming yet.

Just my random thoughts,

Roman

PS - If the AmLogic packs a Mali-450 MP8 I think it will be the best all-around chip by far. Quad Cortex-A9 cores and a very powerful GPU in a decently priced package is extremely appealing. Also, the fact they are building on a 28 nm process is very exciting as the RK3188 is a wonder when it comes to battery life and built on the same process. The RK3188 vs the Samsung 4412 is significantly more power efficient because the Samsung is on a 32 nm process.
 

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Rockchip is releasing SDK 2.0 for RK3188. That should really improve gaming and UI sluggishness.
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/78585-rk3188-sdk-20/page__view__findpost__p__921801

SDK 2.0 firmware is still in beta testing right now. After, it will get released to tablet makers who will come out with new firmwares which run better. Same thing happened with RK2918 SDK 1.2 vs 2.1. 2918-SDK2.1 ran somewhat better overall. This could also explain why 4412 tablets run smoother than RK3188.

Let's compare some chip specs for Mali GPUs:

500 MHz (28 nm)
Mali400-MP4: 55 M tri/s + 2 GPix/s

650 MHz (28 nm)
Mali450-MP4: 142 M tri/s + 2.6 GPix/s
Mali450-MP8: 142 M tri/s + 5.2 GPix/s
*triangle counts same meaning similar number of vertex processors between MP4 & MP8 Mali450s.

Mali-T604: ARM doesn't provide specs and have to use benchmarks to compare with instead

We can see above that Mali450-MP8 has 3X # of triangles & 2.6X Pixels/s than Mali400 but only because of the somewhat higher clock speed. At same clock speed would only yield 2X actual performance improvement.

Your link to GLBench 2.5 Egypt 1080P offscreen shows:
T604 (Nexus10) - 32.9 FPS
Mali400 (SGS3) - 13 FPS

I would guess:
Mali450-MP8 - 26 FPS
Mali450-MP4 - 14-18 FPS

At same 500 MHz clock speed,
Mali400-MP4 & Mali450-MP4 would have the same fillrate but with Mali450 having 2X the vertex processing power (ie. triangles).

From below graphs and focusing *only* on Android devices we can see that:
-Nexus 10 has the highest fillrate (beating out Adreno 320)
http://techivian.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Nexus-10-vs-ipad-4.jpg

-Nexus 10 has 2nd highest triangle count. Only slightly bested by Adreno 320.
http://techivian.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Nexus-4-vs-iphone-52.jpg

Keep in mind that PowerVR makes powerful GPUs but so does ARM and Nvidia. Tegra 4 should kick some butt too. Exynos 5250 is only using Mali-T604 but ARM's latest is Mali-T678.

Which GPU would I prefer in my ARM chip?
PowerVR GPUs tend to be better but Allwinner messed that up with their A31. Cortex A7 @ 1 or 1.2 GHz is just too weak for CPU tasks. Also, 543/544 MP3 would have been much better over MP2 which ended up being only little better than Mali400-MP4. Mali450-MP8 should outperform A31's GPU.

I also don't believe Amlogic is doing a custom 2 vertex + 6 pixel processors for their 8726-M8 but who really knows with the Chinese.

PS,
My guess is that A31 does better on Citadel because of more triangles/sec. Citadel must use lots of triangles.

Nexus 10 (5250) @ 2560x1600 gets 53.3 FPS in Citadel. =)
http://armdevices.net/2013/03/03/arm-mali-t604-graphics-performance-beyond-1080p/
 

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@ Nickos

That is some VERY encouraging news about SDK 2.0 for the RK3188. There are some serious real-world performance gaps for the RK3188 imho. Based on what the chipset IS on paper, it should be nothing but silk.

I have a Chuwi V88 and absolutely love the device for several reasons, one them being the chipset, so I am not opposed to the RK3188 by any means. I just think a lot more is and should be expected of it.

While we are talking numbers I will throw in my guesses on 4412 mali numbers:

The Exynos 4412 is a bit of an odd-child as it isn't 28nm and it isn't 40nm but rather is right in-between at 32nm. Based on the clockspeed of the GPU it should get roughly:
Mali-400 MP4 @ 440 Mhz should = 45 M Tri/S + 1.64 GPix/s

**This is assuming that you can scale the numbers perfectly linearly, which you can't, but it is close enough. The difference in clock speed of 22% from 440 Mhz to 500 Mhz is little enough that the curve wouldn't be too drastic (at least I wouldn't think).

Anyhow, the real-world moral of the story is that I expect 22% more performance out of the RK3188 vs the Samsung Exynos 4412. Hopefully SDK 2.0 can bring us there.

Kind Regards and thanks as always for weighing in,

Roman

PS - Based on the triangle count on the Mali-450 my guess is that they drastically improved the vertex processor or at least how it works with the rest of the components. I am just comparing block diagrams from these pages:

http://www.arm.com/images/OCT12-Mali-400-large_image.jpg

http://www.arm.com/images/OCT12-Mali-450-large_image.jpg
 

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That is some VERY encouraging news about SDK 2.0 for the RK3188. There are some serious real-world performance gaps for the RK3188 imho. Based on what the chipset IS on paper, it should be nothing but silk.
SDK 2.0 made a big difference for this Cube tablet owner:
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/65370-new-exynos-5250-powerhouse/page__view__findpost__p__928753

SDK 2.0 firmware should make everything work better with RK3188. I actually avoided getting RK3188 because heard too many complaints and was hoping for something better to come along.

ARM also uses GPU frequency to scale performance using linear relationship. You can see that both vertex & pixel performance is scaled according to the GPU clock speed.
Mali400 MP4
210: 23 M tri/s + 840 MPix/s
500: 55 M tri/s + 2 GPix/s
http://arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-graphics-hardware/mali-400-mp.php?tab=Performance

ie. Going from 500 to 210 MHz
55/500 * 210 = 23.1 M tri/s
2000/500 * 210 = 840 MPix/s

Also, checking offscreen fillrate & triangle throughput from GFXBench we notice that:
RK3188 - 25% higher fillrate over A31
A31 - 250-300% more triangles/sec
http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=Google+Nexus+10&D2=Onda+V812+Core4&D3=Chuwi+CW-V88-QUAD&D4=Vido+N80RK&cols=4

Higher triangle count would explain why A31 is outperforming RK3188 in Citadel. That benchmark probably uses lots of triangles which Mali400 cannot keep up with.

5250 - gives very strong performance on fillrate & triangles/sec beating out both RK3188 & A31. This can be seen in offscreen tests in gfxbench in above link.

One interesting thing is, if you look at triangles/sec for A31 & RK3188 both with offscreen (1080P) & onscreen (native resolution) you will see that RK3188 stays the same. ie. some type of kernel/driver issue??? You can see triangle count changes for 5250 & A31 with different resolutions (offscreen vs onscreen). I wonder if SDK 2.0 will fix that problem?

Mali450-MP8
-Will have much higher fillrate than RK3188 or A31
-A31 may still output 70-150% more triangles/sec
I cannot say if 8726-M8 will best A31 on Citadel bench because should still have somewhat lower triangle count but should certainly perform much better compared to Mali400-MP4 (RK3188).

In any case, I believe 5250 & 8726-M8 will be the best ARM chip choices for Chinese tablets until Rockchip & AllWinner come out with a newer, better performing ARM chip in 7-10 months.
 

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There may be another answer to why the Citadel bench goes so well on the A31... and this is totally speculation on my part based on an experience I had today...

So after all this slick talk of the A31 platform I decided to get a Momo 19 out of the box. This is a device I had written off completely a few months back because the screen is just too bloody dark. Anyhow, notable features:

Allwinner A31 Quad-Core
2 Gb of ram
1024x768 IPS Display

-- So very low resolution - A31 - should be great for gaming right...

Anyhow, I went ahead and downloaded Wild Blood which runs on the Unreal engine (perhaps the same engine citadel uses?).

When I got into the game I noticed instantly that the graphics absolutely suck. The textures and geometry complexity is ultra-reduced. I have seen this same thing happen on an Action ATM-7029 device I tested which has the GC1000 GPU in it. I tried NOVA 3 for kicks and it was the exact same story. My guess is that the devices get detected by the play store as "openGL - generic" or whatever and it gets the ultra plain version of the game.

I am going to see if I can find the Citadel bench and will take note of how the graphics actually look. If it is running in some kind of reduced mode it wouldn't be an accurate bench
.

-Roman
 

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Downloading Epic Citadel Bench now...
 
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