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Ramos W42 Drawbacks


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#1 Nickos-V

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

I am quite tempted by the Ramos W42 (9.4 inch 1280 x 800) although I wish it had 2Gb RAM instead of 1Gb but I know janesh has one on order so I might wait for his verdict before taking the plunge.

W42 looks good but battery is little small sized for it. Pipo M8 seems to provide 6400 mAh battery. That means you lose about 1000 mAh which can be 60-75 mins. more use time. I believe the largest battery size that can get crammed in 9.4" is about 6500 mAh. Maybe even up to 6800 mAh?

A31 tablets are coming with 2 GB RAM & I expect RK3188 tablets to do the same too. Android apps run well with 1 GB RAM but having another GB for about same price is better.

W42:
+Exynos 4412 is pretty good ARM chip
-no HDMI
-1 GB RAM
-5400 mAh battery
*lower price can always make up for any drawbacks

Pipo announced M9 RK3188 tablet. Sooner or later they will update their M8 too and put in a RK3188 into it. May take 3 or 4 months to happen though because their focus for first 3 months will be on the M9.

I think waiting for RK3188 tablet is better but each person must decide for themselves. Exynos 4412 is a great ARM chip though RK3188 is a better version of it. ie. faster CPU clock & GPU clock.

RK3188: 1.8 GHz CPU + 533 MHz MP4 GPU
Exynos 4412: 1.4 GHz CPU + 440 MHz MP4 GPU
*Note: differences with GPU are minor & CPU are moderate

Also, even though the W42 scores very well in Antutu 3 with over 15,000 points. Its Nenamark2 & Vellamo HTML5 scores do not look great. This would point to some kind of firmware, Mali driver or background app problem.
http://www.slatedroi...-lg-ips-display

Can also see the same thing in GLBenchmark when compared to U30GT. Notice 2.1 onscreen score is somewhat lower for W42 versus U30GT.
http://www.glbenchma... U30GT-H&cols=2

Something is holding Exynos 4412 GPU performance back because it has better GPU specs over RK3066 and peak CPU speed, if under dual threaded mode, is not that different between them.

I assume some type of firmware/driver problem since Exynos 4412 has the better chip specs compared to RK3066.

PS, it is also possible that other tablet makers may come out with 9.4" tablets too instead of just Ramos & Pipo. Also, I would not want to buy any tablet that had a battery with size that was more than 10% smaller than the maximum that could fit in there. 5400 mAh in W42 is 18.5% smaller than 6400 mAh found in M8.

PPS, you'll be happy with W42 for the next 4-6 months at which point you will want to get a RK3188 tablet instead. =) You can always sell the W42 and get something better later on too.

*MINIX NEO X5 (RK3066) - OK. Not fun because uses mouse cursor.
*YUANDAO N80 DUAL (RK3066) - Very good
*CUBE U30GT (RK3066)- Defective; buttons broke in 2-3 weeks; Bad quality control!!! I will never buy a Cube again!!! - Very good while working
*WOPAD I7 (RK2918)- About OK. Sluggish because has weaker ARM chip (RK2918) & less RAM (512 MB).

#2 venome

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:03 PM

Thanks for the informative post Nikos.

They said at their CES showcase that although it would be faster than the Tegra 3, they claimed the RK3188 would have the same performance as the Exynos 4412. It does sound like a firmware problem for the Exynos.

While the M8 has a 6400 mAh battery, the W42's 5400mAH Li-polymer battery is supposed to be more energy efficient so the Battery Life could work out about the same. Wish i had both to compare :p

#3 Nickos-V

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:35 AM

they claimed the RK3188 would have the same performance as the Exynos 4412. It does sound like a firmware problem for the Exynos.

While the M8 has a 6400 mAh battery, the W42's 5400mAH Li-polymer battery is supposed to be more energy efficient so the Battery Life could work out about the same. Wish i had both to compare :p

Should be faster than Exynos 4412 because RK3188 has 400 MHz faster CPU speed per core + 93 MHz faster speed for GPU cores. ie. RK3188 should be slightly faster on GPU side (3D gaming) and somewhat faster on CPU side.

Very unlikely for W42 to last as long as M8 unless Ramos did something special with the board and IC chips to reduce power use. They "might" be able to take it down by 10% less but very doubtful they can cover that big battery gap. Testing would tell for sure how power efficient it really is.


PS, I have heard that M9 (RK3188) scores around 18,000 in Antutu. Compare that to about 15,126 for W42. =) Not the same. 3,000 point difference is pretty huge. Most of that coming from CPU. I still would like to see other benchmarks to compare the differences in them too.

Edited by Nickos-V, 31 January 2013 - 12:38 AM.


*MINIX NEO X5 (RK3066) - OK. Not fun because uses mouse cursor.
*YUANDAO N80 DUAL (RK3066) - Very good
*CUBE U30GT (RK3066)- Defective; buttons broke in 2-3 weeks; Bad quality control!!! I will never buy a Cube again!!! - Very good while working
*WOPAD I7 (RK2918)- About OK. Sluggish because has weaker ARM chip (RK2918) & less RAM (512 MB).

#4 Nickos-V

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:26 AM

I gave it some more thought and believe you are right. Exynos 4412 should be more power efficient than RK3066 because 32nm VS 40nm. About 35-40%. Even with higher GPU clock, would still probably get 30% better power use over RK3066. So, smaller battery capacity should last longer with Exynos 4412 tablet.

Can see this with GLBenchmark battery test:
http://www.glbenchma... U30GT-H&cols=2

U30GT with 7200 mAh battery. W42 with 5400 mAh battery.

Egypt 2.1 battery test
W42: 4:09 h
U30GT: 3:54 h

Time is *almost* equal with battery size difference of 33%. So, Exynos 4412 seems to be 35% or more power efficient compared to RK3066.


Edit: added in some more info to post

Edited by Nickos-V, 31 January 2013 - 04:37 AM.


*MINIX NEO X5 (RK3066) - OK. Not fun because uses mouse cursor.
*YUANDAO N80 DUAL (RK3066) - Very good
*CUBE U30GT (RK3066)- Defective; buttons broke in 2-3 weeks; Bad quality control!!! I will never buy a Cube again!!! - Very good while working
*WOPAD I7 (RK2918)- About OK. Sluggish because has weaker ARM chip (RK2918) & less RAM (512 MB).

#5 janesh

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:57 AM

Nickos, you know i like your very interesting contributions, i should desire i could, but i am a common tester, who is using his feeling.
Just a few notes.
I have to say the ployer Momo11 quad with the exynos 4412 is for me in my experience the fastest most smooth running device i have tested.
No browswer lag, no lag when browsing and mail come in. No lag when you immediately after boot start your webbrowser but you have to wait until your mail is loaded, and also no freezes after twoo days of use.
Battery life is one of the best of all my devices i have tested so far, in my use 4-5 hours, wifi on and brightness 75 percent.( yes i am 64)
Also video playback, i use only now and then youtube in HD, is much better with the exynos 4412, much less, or not, stop playing to load. The Mali 400 in the ployer Momo11 quad is probably running 440 MHz, as you write in your post above.
If you take a look on the ramos W42 site, you can see that they are listing 533 Mhz for Mali 400, if i am not wrong.
I do have much confidence in the samsung technique, and i will test RK3188 for sure, but i think you will not see significant differences between RK3188 and exynos 4412 without considering battery life.

Edited by janesh, 31 January 2013 - 08:42 AM.

On order, nothing, and am i am finished with Chinese cpu's, i prefer my exynos devices.
Favorites, in order of use, Samsung galaxy note 8 inch, Ramos W42, Ployer Momo11 quad exynos 4412.
Sold last months, PiPo U1, Teclast P85, PiPo S2, Teclast P85HD, Cube mini U30GT, Yuandao Vido N80IPS, Ainol Novo 10 Hero ii: very bad, Ployer Momo12, Onda V812, Yuandao Vido N80 RK3188, Teclast P88, Google Nexus 7-8Gb, PiPo M8pro RK3188, Chuwi V88 RK3188, Samsung galaxy tab 7.7, Ployer Momo8 IPS, Yuandao Window N70, BB playbook.
And: You know we all became mathematicians for the same reason: we were lazy.

#6 Tablet_Collector

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:50 AM

Thanks Nickos-V, janesh and venome for your informative and interesting contributions.

The one thing I find strange with most of these Exynos tablets is the small size of their batteries. Even though the Exynos 4412 is more energy efficient if they included a larger battery then the usage time could be phenomenal!

For example, take a look at the (admittedly expensive) Benyi Miracle One HERE with its 12,000 maH battery giving something like 12 hours use between charges :o

Anyway, I am still tempted by the W42 to keep me going until the RK3188 tablets arrive.

Jez
P.S. janesh where did you buy your W42, thanks :good:

Edited by Tablet_Collector, 31 January 2013 - 05:51 AM.

Recommended devices shown in Green
My Tablets (current): Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, Google Nexus 7, Minix Neo X5, MK808 TV Stick
Phones (current): Samsung Galaxy S2 JB 4.1
Previous in chronological order (most recent first): Ramos W42, Ramos W30HD, Yuandao (Vido) N80IPS, Prestigio MultiPad 8.0 Ultra Duo, Ployer Momo8-IPS, Ainol Novo 10 Hero, Window N101+, Ployer Momo11 Speed, Window N90-II, Pipo (Movie M3, Mix M2, Max M1), Cube Mini U30GT-M, Cube U30GT-W, Blackberry Playbook, Sanei N90, Zenithink C91 ZT280, Archos 80 G9, Aishuo S2

#7 janesh

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:08 AM

I bought it here Jez, and do you notice on your W30HD the lag I describe in my post above?.

And another thing, is JB available on your device Jez?, just saw a video about hyundai T7, with ICS firmware dated 20130125.

Edit because faulty year in firmware date.

Edited by janesh, 31 January 2013 - 12:53 PM.

On order, nothing, and am i am finished with Chinese cpu's, i prefer my exynos devices.
Favorites, in order of use, Samsung galaxy note 8 inch, Ramos W42, Ployer Momo11 quad exynos 4412.
Sold last months, PiPo U1, Teclast P85, PiPo S2, Teclast P85HD, Cube mini U30GT, Yuandao Vido N80IPS, Ainol Novo 10 Hero ii: very bad, Ployer Momo12, Onda V812, Yuandao Vido N80 RK3188, Teclast P88, Google Nexus 7-8Gb, PiPo M8pro RK3188, Chuwi V88 RK3188, Samsung galaxy tab 7.7, Ployer Momo8 IPS, Yuandao Window N70, BB playbook.
And: You know we all became mathematicians for the same reason: we were lazy.

#8 Tablet_Collector

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:44 AM

I bought it here Jez, and do you notice on your W30HD the lag I describe in my post above?.

And another thing, is JB available on your device Jez?, just saw a video about hyundai T7, with ICS firmware dated 20120125.


Thanks janesh.

Ployer have a very good reputation for their firmwares but the W30HD also seems very good in terms of being able to do multiple things at once without lagging. I think the 1920 x 1200 screen does slow it down in some cases but I'm not really too interested in Retina screens anyway if it means short battery life. I just wish Ramos would publish firmware that fixes the streaming video issue.

No JB on the W30HD yet...maybe they are waiting for Samsung to produce it :o It could be a long wait as Samsung have only just started issuing JB for their own mainstream devices (it's just available on my S2 at last :)

That Hyundai T7 looks v cool btw 8)

Jez

Edited by Tablet_Collector, 31 January 2013 - 08:50 AM.

Recommended devices shown in Green
My Tablets (current): Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, Google Nexus 7, Minix Neo X5, MK808 TV Stick
Phones (current): Samsung Galaxy S2 JB 4.1
Previous in chronological order (most recent first): Ramos W42, Ramos W30HD, Yuandao (Vido) N80IPS, Prestigio MultiPad 8.0 Ultra Duo, Ployer Momo8-IPS, Ainol Novo 10 Hero, Window N101+, Ployer Momo11 Speed, Window N90-II, Pipo (Movie M3, Mix M2, Max M1), Cube Mini U30GT-M, Cube U30GT-W, Blackberry Playbook, Sanei N90, Zenithink C91 ZT280, Archos 80 G9, Aishuo S2

#9 Nickos-V

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

The Mali 400 in the ployer Momo11 quad is probably running 440 MHz, as you write in your post above.
If you take a look on the ramos W42 site, you can see that they are listing 533 Mhz for Mali 400, if i am not wrong.

Good catch Janesh. I was using Wikipedia for my Exynos reference:
http://en.wikipedia....t_of_Exynos_SoC

They just changed Exynos Quad from 440 to 400 MHz in Wikipedia. I thought 4412 had 400 MHz GPU but Wikipedia said 440 MHz just the other day. =) Some device makers have pushed up the GPU clock to 533 MHz instead. Like RK3188, Exynos Quad in Note II & Ramos W42. etc., The standard GPU speed for 4412 is 400 MHz unless tablet maker says otherwise, .

Ramos W42 with Mali-400MP4 @ 533 MHz would in theory give identical performance to RK3188 on the GPU side. The only real differences between these chips would be CPU clock speeds and 32nm VS 28nm. ie. could always underclock the RK3188 to 1.4 GHz or 1.5 GHz and get better battery life. Who really needs quad 1.8 GHz. =) Quad 1.5 GHz is still really great. 28nm chip uses less power than 32nm.

PS, this is why GPU clock on 4412 can be confusing. Either standard 400 MHz or overclocked 533 MHz depending on tablet/phone maker.


The one thing I find strange with most of these Exynos tablets is the small size of their batteries. Even though the Exynos 4412 is more energy efficient if they included a larger battery then the usage time could be phenomenal!

Anyway, I am still tempted by the W42 to keep me going until the RK3188 tablets arrive.

Very true and agree. They could have put in at least 6500 mAh battery in there and would have been much better. I have to assume some Chinese companies are trying to save two or three dollars here and there to increase their bottom line. $3 x 100,000 tablets sold = $300,000 more profit, etc. I have no idea on sales but could be in the hundred of thousands?

I would say buy a W42 as long as you are OK trying to sell it off in 4-6 months time. RK3188 will take another almost 2 months to get released and even then no idea how the quality control will be. The very first batch may have very good quality because they may do them slower to learn the routine. After that, could be 3-6 months in before you can be assured to get a very good quality product. Quality control is not the best with these Chinese tablet makers. They want to sell as many as possible and end up sending some bad units out.

*MINIX NEO X5 (RK3066) - OK. Not fun because uses mouse cursor.
*YUANDAO N80 DUAL (RK3066) - Very good
*CUBE U30GT (RK3066)- Defective; buttons broke in 2-3 weeks; Bad quality control!!! I will never buy a Cube again!!! - Very good while working
*WOPAD I7 (RK2918)- About OK. Sluggish because has weaker ARM chip (RK2918) & less RAM (512 MB).

#10 janesh

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

What do you think Nickos, why have these devices only ICS, and not JB as all new chinatabs with RK3066 or A31.

Do you agree with Jezzer when he says its probably depends on samsung, and will they in your view get JB in the near future.

Edit, I now remember, my seller list the Ramos W42 with JB, :unsure: I will see next week.

Edited by janesh, 31 January 2013 - 05:26 PM.

On order, nothing, and am i am finished with Chinese cpu's, i prefer my exynos devices.
Favorites, in order of use, Samsung galaxy note 8 inch, Ramos W42, Ployer Momo11 quad exynos 4412.
Sold last months, PiPo U1, Teclast P85, PiPo S2, Teclast P85HD, Cube mini U30GT, Yuandao Vido N80IPS, Ainol Novo 10 Hero ii: very bad, Ployer Momo12, Onda V812, Yuandao Vido N80 RK3188, Teclast P88, Google Nexus 7-8Gb, PiPo M8pro RK3188, Chuwi V88 RK3188, Samsung galaxy tab 7.7, Ployer Momo8 IPS, Yuandao Window N70, BB playbook.
And: You know we all became mathematicians for the same reason: we were lazy.

#11 Nickos-V

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:12 PM

What do you think Nickos, why have these devices only ICS, and not JB as all new chinatabs with RK3066 or A31.

Edit, I now remember, my seller list the Ramos W42 with JB, :unsure: I will see next week.

Chip maker works on updating the kernel source to work with their chip. Kernel gets passed along to tablet maker who uses it to make new firmware for their tablet.

Jez says Samsung is updating their other devices to JB. That means Ramos either was late getting the updated kernel source from Samsung or just dragging their feet in making a new firmware release. ie. lots of different tablets to support and they will do releases for their newest & most popular models first.

Latest for W42 is from Jan. 4th. Maybe ICS? Does not say if ICS or JB.

Talk to your buyer to get more information on it. Later,

Edited by Nickos-V, 31 January 2013 - 10:13 PM.


*MINIX NEO X5 (RK3066) - OK. Not fun because uses mouse cursor.
*YUANDAO N80 DUAL (RK3066) - Very good
*CUBE U30GT (RK3066)- Defective; buttons broke in 2-3 weeks; Bad quality control!!! I will never buy a Cube again!!! - Very good while working
*WOPAD I7 (RK2918)- About OK. Sluggish because has weaker ARM chip (RK2918) & less RAM (512 MB).

#12 BamaPanda

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

Chip maker works on updating the kernel source to work with their chip. Kernel gets passed along to tablet maker who uses it to make new firmware for their tablet.

Jez says Samsung is updating their other devices to JB. That means Ramos either was late getting the updated kernel source from Samsung or just dragging their feet in making a new firmware release. ie. lots of different tablets to support and they will do releases for their newest & most popular models first.

Latest for W42 is from Jan. 4th. Maybe ICS? Does not say if ICS or JB.

Talk to your buyer to get more information on it. Later,


Merimobiles says they will have 4.1 on the W42 early Feb.




#13 Tablet_Collector

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:16 AM

Merimobiles says they will have 4.1 on the W42 early Feb.


Thanks for the info BamaPanda. That's certainly good news if MM are correct as I have a W42 on its way :good:
Recommended devices shown in Green
My Tablets (current): Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, Google Nexus 7, Minix Neo X5, MK808 TV Stick
Phones (current): Samsung Galaxy S2 JB 4.1
Previous in chronological order (most recent first): Ramos W42, Ramos W30HD, Yuandao (Vido) N80IPS, Prestigio MultiPad 8.0 Ultra Duo, Ployer Momo8-IPS, Ainol Novo 10 Hero, Window N101+, Ployer Momo11 Speed, Window N90-II, Pipo (Movie M3, Mix M2, Max M1), Cube Mini U30GT-M, Cube U30GT-W, Blackberry Playbook, Sanei N90, Zenithink C91 ZT280, Archos 80 G9, Aishuo S2

#14 Roman2025

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

Actually the Exynos part has one major advantage (major in my opinion) over the Rockchip 3188 (and 3066).... Memory Write Speed is about double... and yes it is VERY important (based on what I have seen) if you want to avoid lag and annoying force-close issues. It really helps because if you have (like I do) an RK3066 (or even older chip) you will notice the tablets likes to come stutter when downloading/installing apps or downloading files. I am pretty sure that is the memory write speed as the bottleneck. If the 4412 fixes that, it would smooth out the overall experience.

All that being said, I love my RK3066 device. It is the happiest I have been with a China tab and I have had my main unit for going on 6 months now I think? I rarely get annoyed or feel "let down" by the performance which is something I never could have said about the previous generation A10 and RK2918 procs.

Regards,

Roman

PS - I am considering waiting ONE more generation before upgrading my personal device... I REALLY want Cortex-A15 on a 28nm wafer :drinks:
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